thefourthvine: Two people fucking, rearview: sex is the universal fandom. (Default)
Keep Hoping Machine Running ([personal profile] thefourthvine) wrote2009-07-10 11:20
Entry tags:

[Poll] Perceived Kinkiness

I am having a crappy day, people. I come to you for entertainment and distraction.

So, the other day - or maybe it was the other week; I'm not exactly Speedy Jenny, here - [livejournal.com profile] frostfire_17 said something that interested me. She said that she thinks Reboot Kirk would be kinkier than TOS Kirk.

My immediate reaction, of course, was to want to evaluate the Perceived Kinkiness (PK) of many characters on a set scale. This is a pressing and important issue in fandom, after all, and I think it's tragic that I can find no previous work on the subject in the literature. (Why is there no journal of Fandometrics? I know lots of people study fans, and, look, I love you guys and I find you interesting and all, but what I really want to read is studies on the characteristics of various OTP groups within a given fandom as compared to OTP groups within another fandom, and an ordering of perceived character intelligence plotted against six key traits one of which is total percentage of dialog, and data on the distribution of key adjectives associated with certain characters, and maybe how that relates to fannish migration over time. Plus, of course, PK.) Fortunately, we have this thing called polls, so I can at least cover the PK issue until such a time as Fandometrics starts publishing.

Obviously, answer this poll using your own personal definition of kinkiness. For bonus points (and a more distracted, and thus more happy, TFV), discuss what specific kinks you think a character is mostly likely to have in the comments.

On this scale, 0 is totally not at all kinky, and 5 is most kinky in all the land. Go! Rate! We will have our Fandometrics yet! (And now we do, thanks to [livejournal.com profile] dramaturgca: [livejournal.com profile] fandometrics!)



[Poll #1427906]

[identity profile] shadowvalkyrie.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:47 (UTC)(link)
Huh, I have to admit I don't know half of these fandoms well enough to judge. But I do know for certain that TOS!Kirk has had a good deal more time to really explore kinkiness and therefore trumps his reboot!counterpart. ";-]

[identity profile] mecurtin.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:51 (UTC)(link)
*nods* Same for Methos, with extra special sauce.

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[identity profile] nicolasechs.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:48 (UTC)(link)
This is such a cool poll. I can't wait to see what the results are. :)

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:15 (UTC)(link)
See? I am totally right about that Fandometrics thing. This is information we need to have at hand!

[identity profile] darthfox.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:49 (UTC)(link)
Of course the first thing I did was scroll down to make sure you had Jack Harkness on your list; and I'm sorely tempted to click "5" for him and then submit without voting on anyone else at all. :-)

[identity profile] darthfox.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:51 (UTC)(link)
Further, I don't think the five-point scale is enough -- but I am amused beyond all telling that Jack so far has no votes other than 5. :-D

[identity profile] artaxastra.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:50 (UTC)(link)
I always write the kinky ones....

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:17 (UTC)(link)
And why wouldn't you?

[identity profile] mecurtin.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:50 (UTC)(link)
I assume -- and see that it is indeed the case -- that Jack Harkness is in there for calibration purposes. I figured he counts as "not just kinkiest in all the land, but kinkiest in all of time and space" -- so like an 8 on the scale of 0 to 5.

Do I have to re-vote to where Jack Harkness = 5?

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:23 (UTC)(link)
*snickers*

He's functioning as a calibration mechanism, yes, but mostly I wanted to see if other people saw him as super-kinky (as seems to be the case) or not at all kinky (which is where I am). He has no hangups about sex, is open to anything, willing to try anything, and has no special focus: to me, that's not kinky. That's just a healthy fifty-first century guy. *g*

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[identity profile] dramaturgca.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:51 (UTC)(link)
I volunteer to edit/proofread the Journal of Fandometrics. Seriously.

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ext_1798: (jack harkness manwhore/dancy dreamer)

[identity profile] wildestranger.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:56 (UTC)(link)
Who in the world could be kinkier than Captain Jack Harkness? No, really? Can such a thing be imagined?

Also, Captain Jack Sparrow - kinky until distracted by rum/passed out.
ext_2353: amanda tapping, chris judge, end of an era (hl troublemakers)

[identity profile] scrollgirl.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:57 (UTC)(link)
I think Methos could probably give Jack Harkness a run for his money ;)

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[identity profile] rivkat.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:56 (UTC)(link)
See, I distinguish between kinky and just willing to do anything that anyone suggests, which is why I'm not sure Jack Harkness is all that kinky, though the immortality kicks him up a notch in my estimation. Thus, Dean Winchester = not particularly kinky, just slutty. In my definition, kinky people have more requirements.

[identity profile] darthfox.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:59 (UTC)(link)
Huh. See, and you lose me at "requirements"; I think digging it is kinky, and needing it is fetishy. (I also think Jack is not only willing to do anything that anyone suggests, but also the source of a fair few ideas of his own.)

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[identity profile] moosesal.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 18:59 (UTC)(link)
I'm cracking up at the almost unanimous (so far) results for Jack Harkness. That is awesome.

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:01 (UTC)(link)
As one of the few dissenters, I am likewise amused. *g*

[identity profile] jamjar.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:01 (UTC)(link)
I've marked, but I'm going to say that:

a) Different cultures have different ideas of kinkiness, so all of this is based on how kinky they perceive themselves to be, related to their own background. In other words, one world's vanilla is another's kink, so Teyla may be kinky by her own standards, but the things that are kinky to her wouldn't necessarily be kinky to John and co, and the things they think make her kinky, might seem vanilla to her. And not even french vanilla.

b) Jack's experienced enough that he views himself as kinky by the standards of most worlds, which means he's open-minded in his own description, but will also say that to a lot of the universe? Not even close to kinky on a universal scale. That said, he's always willing to try something new to see if he likes it, again to see if that was just fluke and third time for luck.

c) Methos is kinky when it's appropriate, when it fits who he is right then and who he's with.

[identity profile] penknife.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:19 (UTC)(link)
Different cultures have different ideas of kinkiness, so all of this is based on how kinky they perceive themselves to be, related to their own background. In other words, one world's vanilla is another's kink, so Teyla may be kinky by her own standards, but the things that are kinky to her wouldn't necessarily be kinky to John and co, and the things they think make her kinky, might seem vanilla to her. And not even french vanilla.

*nods* This is my trouble with figuring out how to rate Spock, because I don't think Vulcan and human ideas of kinkiness overlap very much.

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[identity profile] jamjar.livejournal.com - 2009-07-11 20:29 (UTC) - Expand

so... Five Sex Acts Jack Harkness Didn't Enjoy

(Anonymous) - 2009-08-07 09:24 (UTC) - Expand

RE: so... Five Sex Acts Jack Harkness Didn't Enjoy

(Anonymous) - 2009-08-07 09:31 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] derryderrydown.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:01 (UTC)(link)
I've said 0 for Jack Harkness because, although he'll do absolutely anything, he's pretty vanilla by 51st century standards.

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:06 (UTC)(link)
See, and I said 0 for Jack Harkness because he's just sexually open. He's not kinked in any particular way; he'll do anything, with no special focus or restriction or indeed anything beyond, "Hey, sex is fun!"

[identity profile] illariy.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:02 (UTC)(link)
Fandometrics: Want Want Want! :D

[identity profile] illariy.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:09 (UTC)(link)
Damn. Pushed submit too soon.

What kinks: I think TOS!Kirk enjoys bondage, possibly anything that gets hurt, orgies and telepathic sex. Heck, TOS!Kirk probably would enjoy sex with a tribble. But I didn't give him a high rating because to me, the sex is what matters most to him. Everything else is secondary.

TOS!Spock... I don't know. He did have some nice moments with strangling someone. He enjoys melding with people so I think he'd enjoy it sexually, too. Other than that? I got nothing. I think TOS!Spock is quite repressed.

AOS!Kirk enjoys getting hurrrrt very much. Asphyxation, whipping, calling him names, it's all good. He has kinky sex as often as he can, which sadly is getting less and less frequent now that he's a Captain. Thank god for masked parties and some pretty advanced 23nd century makeup. Also, having a good relationship with your CMO is key. *nods*

AOS!Spock loves strangling people. He also might have a mama kink. AOS!Spock is not ashamed of much. Humans are weird and illogical, Vulcans detest him anyway so noone can really judge him after all.

[identity profile] bleedtoblue.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:09 (UTC)(link)
I find it very interesting that my answers mostly matched the most popular answer for each character. I seriously suspect Jack Harkness throws the whole scale off.

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:12 (UTC)(link)
Apparently you have a very popular sense of kinkiness. *g*

I seriously suspect Jack Harkness throws the whole scale off.

It's what he'd want to do, of course.
ext_3167: Happiness is a dragon in formaldehyde  (Default)

[identity profile] puckling.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:09 (UTC)(link)
I approve of this study. More of these sorts of polls should be conducted. Basically, I would totally read Fandometrics.

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:13 (UTC)(link)
Thanks to [livejournal.com profile] dramaturgca, it exists! [livejournal.com profile] fandometrics.

[identity profile] hannahrorlove.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:10 (UTC)(link)
To find a baseline from which to judge, I looked at the online OED. The third definition of the noun "Kink" is as follows: A sexually abnormal person; one who practises sexual perversions; loosely, an eccentric, a person wearing noticeably unusual clothes, behaving in a startling manner, etc.

Disregarding the notes about clothing, as that can vary within a few square miles of a single city - Los Angeles with its bikinis and Orthodox Jews, for example - we are still left with a broad base from which to judge, by "pervesions" and "abnormal." However, to go by the first part of the first definition of the adjective "kinky" is a bit more helpful: Having, or full of, kinks. With kink being taken to mean an abnormality or unusual trait.

Oddly enough, this seems to throw the sexual opportunists on this list - Captains Jack Sparrow and Harkness, for example - into the low numbers. Given their general willingness to have sex without thought of any associations to the act beyond the sex itself, their lack of concern over any additional aspects beyond one or more mutually willing partners, and compliance with the wishes of said partners, they seem to be decidely non-kinky. Should the other person score on the high end of the spectrum, that would do little to dissuade them, just as a partner on the low end of the spectrum would as well. This is, however, not taking such characters as Castiel and the Doctor into account, as such individuals who are removed from the general concerns of the species are unlikely to bother themselves with thoughts of sex, much less kinky sex, except as an anthropological curiousity.

And I even have the perfect icon for this.

Why, yes, I did have a bad afternoon and decided to sublimate with academic language. This might go a long way towards explaining academia in general, come to think of it.
Edited 2009-07-10 19:12 (UTC)

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:15 (UTC)(link)
Oddly enough, this seems to throw the sexual opportunists on this list - Captains Jack Sparrow and Harkness, for example - into the low numbers.

And, see, this is mostly where I place them! (Jack Sparrow seems kinkier to me than Jack Harkness, who seems totally non-kinky. I mean, Jack Sparrow's primary love interest is a SHIP. That's kinky!)

And I even have the perfect icon for this.

You really, really do. *admires it greatly*

Why, yes, I did have a bad afternoon and decided to sublimate with academic language.

I hope your day improves. (And I was in a similar situation, although I went to the poll route. *g*)

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[identity profile] dramaturgca.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:15 (UTC)(link)
Ahem *BLUSH*

Here sits the beginning of the Journal of [livejournal.com profile] fandometrics

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[identity profile] scarletladyy.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:16 (UTC)(link)
You know for a fact that Faith is going to be a 5 :P

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:26 (UTC)(link)
I admit it's not how I pegged her. (Um. Word choice is just going to be problematic in this discussion; I'm choosing to pretend the double entendres don't exist.) But now I'm reconsidering. This PK thing is HARD.
zillah975: Detail of a sleeping cat from Pierre-Auguste Renoir's Sleeping Cat, 1862 (Default)

[personal profile] zillah975 2009-07-10 19:24 (UTC)(link)
I was a little stumped on Faith, 'cause I had the feeling in the series that she wasn't kinky because she was kinky, she was kinky because it was a way of getting things that she wanted or of freaking people out or of hurting them while being able to pretend she didn't really mean to.

[identity profile] innocentsmith.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:37 (UTC)(link)
Yeah, this. It's kind of just SOP for Faith to use sex as a weapon; vanilla stuff like friendship and a supportive father figure and people saying they believe in her are the things that really, truly, seriously fuck her up emotionally and sometimes lead to actual physical trauma.

[identity profile] miaruma.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:28 (UTC)(link)
:O, this was a surprisingly difficult poll (kinky shouldn't be difficult haha), but yeah, the definition of kinky for me depends not only on various requirements (kinky for me is vanilla as it is 'today' so jack harkness is definitely kinky, but for example Dean 'only' gets a 3 since I think he is outside of the box - has to be - but in the end is very traditional likes missionary position, etc.(he is such a romantic at heart, so I think while he isn't exactly unimaginative and/or stuck up about sex, the truly kinky stuff has to be initiated by someone else first. ... after that all bets are off nomnom), but if he were to take this he would totally give himself a 5 :D), but some characters vary in their kink-ness if that makes sense. I mean Benton Fraser gets toned down over the series, so while I think he starts out as a 5 at the beginning of the series, he barely scrapes a 3 at the end for me (and that's just because sex in the snow requires a certain amount of kinky-ness :D).

Sam Winchester is and always will be a 5, but if I could I'd give him even more. He tries to be the normal one but doesn't seem to have any problem with drinking demon blood during sex once he starts. There's not much he wouldn't do in bed, I think.

No, scratch that. He would embrace everything, as long as he got to manhandle someone :D.

nomnom thank you for giving me such perfect excuses to ramble on about the sex live of these characters :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:31 (UTC)(link)
this was a surprisingly difficult poll

Yeah. I mean, I MADE it, and I still found it hard, and I'm still second-guessing some of my answers. (Although Jack Harkness remains my personal definition of a zero, even though I'm fairly alone there.)

I mean Benton Fraser gets toned down over the series, so while I think he starts out as a 5 at the beginning of the series, he barely scrapes a 3 at the end for me (and that's just because sex in the snow requires a certain amount of kinky-ness

Innnnnnteresting!

thank you for giving me such perfect excuses to ramble on about the sex live of these characters

I am proud of be of service!

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[identity profile] liddle-oldman.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:29 (UTC)(link)
Most of these are pretty vanilla and/or painfully straight, and several, by definition, have no sexuality whatsoever.

Several I rated on how many aliens they've slept with.

And Harkness is pretty much a gimme.
Edited 2009-07-10 19:30 (UTC)

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:34 (UTC)(link)
Most of these are pretty vanilla and/or painfully straight

But the very very straight can also be very very kinky!

several, by definition, have no sexuality whatsoever.

*gazes at list* Which ones have no sexuality whatsoever?

Several I rated on how many aliens they've slept with.

Then I am guessing you rated Kirk pretty darn high; isn't he the guy with a girl-shaped creature on every planet?

And Harkness is pretty much a gimme.

I agree with you! Although I bet you picked five for him. I picked zero. But at least we both knew EXACTLY what the right answer (for us) was.

Hey, how are you doing? I know you aren't a huggy person, and neither am I, but it seems like a virtual hug might be appropriate right now. *hugs*

[identity profile] annakovsky.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:34 (UTC)(link)
Ahahahaha, YES, I love studies of this nature.

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:35 (UTC)(link)
They're very very important!

There must be at least a thesis in this somewhere.

[identity profile] innocentsmith.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:45 (UTC)(link)
See, you included the girl Companions, but you didn't put the Master in, and he's the whole reason I peg the Doctor as a 5. "I like it when you use my name" and all that.

...Okay, fine, I'll allow that you can't actually include every character for every pairing only, and since it is actually your poll I guess you're permitted to focus on the OTPs you're actually interested in. Still. *pouts*

I note with amusement that everyone seems to agree on Jack Sparrow. Now we need a comparison of the relative kinkiness of various Johnny Depp characters. Although thinking about that too hard in reference to, like, Willy Wonka might keep me awake at night, and not in a good way.

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:38 (UTC)(link)
See, you included the girl Companions, but you didn't put the Master in, and he's the whole reason I peg the Doctor as a 5. "I like it when you use my name" and all that.

Oh, damn. And DW had one more slot left! (I was willing to give each fandom up to four characters. DW only had three. I could have put in the Master!)

Okay, fine, I'll allow that you can't actually include every character for every pairing only, and since it is actually your poll I guess you're permitted to focus on the OTPs you're actually interested in. Still. *pouts*

*pats you* I'm sorry! I mean, yes, I unapologetically focus on the characters I think will yield the most interesting results, but the Master WOULD have been interesting. I just forgot him because I've never seen his parts of the canon.

Although thinking about that too hard in reference to, like, Willy Wonka might keep me awake at night, and not in a good way.

PLEASE NEVER SPEAK ABOUT THIS AGAIN EVER. OMG WILLY WONKA. I NEED TO GO HIDE MY HEAD NOW. I can just imagine what his kinks are, and it's NOT PRETTY. *shudders violently*

[identity profile] lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:52 (UTC)(link)
O-oh god, it bugs me that you call him Doctor Who. :face in hands:

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:39 (UTC)(link)
Sorry! I know, I should have called him the Doctor.

*shame*

[identity profile] seadreamer.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:57 (UTC)(link)
First of all, the answers for Jack Harkness, Ianto, Methos and Jack Sparrow just CRACK ME UP. I think it's a matter of POV, certainly. For Jack Harkness, it's the "been everywhere, seen everything" scale that almost defies kinkiness. Ianto's just got to keep up. ^_~

Sparrow would shag anything that moved, or was still moderately warm. Methos has had so long to experiment that it would have to be something amazing just to make him lift an eyebrow.

I think Rose and Martha would be kinkier than the survey shows, just by the simple virtue of being young, hip and open to the possibilities. (But maybe I'm wrong.) And of all the Doctors, yeah, 10 definately gets my vote of "Most likely to get kinky in the Tardis."

I absolutely believe Dean would be kinkier than Sam, becuase I'm with the group that goes with the Dean = horndawg/ Sam = romantic school of thought. Faith would do anybody on the list... Castiel wouldn't. (Just not buying the AngelSlash, as much as I might enjoy the thought of it.)

Of the SGA bunch, Ronan is kinky and proud of it, Rodney is kinky in the name of scientific experiment, John is kinky, but shy about it, and Teyla... I just don't see it as much.

The TOS crew was kinky just because they were boldly going where no one had gone before, babeee!!

As for the rest... I'm quite possibly the only person in several galaxies not to have watched Due South, or to have seen the first episode of Merlin, nor, alas, ST Reboot. I know, I know... it shames me too. ^__^

Great survey!!

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 23:54 (UTC)(link)
Ianto's just got to keep up.

See, and Ianto pings me as WAY more kinky than Jack Harkness. Obviously I am a special snowflake.

And of all the Doctors, yeah, 10 definately gets my vote of "Most likely to get kinky in the Tardis."

Hmmm. For me, it's a tossup between 9 and 10. Nine certainly had more angst and so on. Plus, hey, that threesome thing going on. He kept Jack Harkness's attention. That has to mean something.

The TOS crew was kinky just because they were boldly going where no one had gone before

Excellent point!

As for the rest... I'm quite possibly the only person in several galaxies not to have watched Due South, or to have seen the first episode of Merlin, nor, alas, ST Reboot.

I haven't seen any Merlin or ST Reboot, but I still felt qualified to vote. I watch vids! Read meta and stories! It's almost like the real thing!

But I have seen several eps of dS. Thank you for allowing me to feel well-watched. *g*
ext_9378: (dream - ocean)

[identity profile] ratherbe4gotten.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 19:58 (UTC)(link)
Wha? People are putting Dean Winchester as a 2?! Dean has so many control/daddy issues he's basically a walking talking definition of a guy looking for someone else to take control for a while. If Dean doesn't have a D/s kink then I'll eat my hat.

...that said, my opinion might by coloured by the fact I'm a slash fan through and through. Maybe from a het point of view I could see where people are coming from.

I'm quite amused Sam seems to be getting a higher kink rating. It's got to be all that cannon drinking of blood XD

[identity profile] miaruma.livejournal.com 2009-07-10 20:19 (UTC)(link)
Hee, but I see where they're going with the 2 (as a slash fan). Because, yeah Dean might have a total control issues, and he certainly doesn't have many inhibitions, but my fannish canon says he doesn't really initiate stuff, so he mostly waits until sam someone tells him it's okay he can actually do this stuff. So while he might be kinky he's not sure enough of it. I mean the sex scenes we have seen have been surprisingly vanilla.

Whereas Sam always was rougher and stuff. (And you know,... the demon blood, that didn't exactly help either :D). Ahhh fandom, the only place where people don't look at you funny when you discuss the merits of porn :D

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