thefourthvine | Any Highlander fans out there? I have some questions.

Any Highlander fans out there? I have some questions.

Do you know HL? I need some help from people who have seen Highlander canon. Here's what I'd like to know:

What are all the ways to permanently kill an immortal? I know cutting off heads, but is there anything else? And is it different the first time they die? And does it matter if the whole head doesn't come off - like, can they come back if the neck is only mostly severed?
What happens the first time they (don't) die? I mean, they think they're mortal for a period of time, right? And then they die, except they don't, and they say, "Whoa, dude. I must be immortal, because that sure as shit should've killed me." (Although I think most people would assume the injury or whatever just hadn't been as bad as they thought, so - do some of them have to die a lot before they figure it out?) But I'm a little foggy on the whole deal, frankly. Do they have to be buried and then rise again, like vampires? Or is it more of an instantaneous thing?
What happens if you shoot an immortal (who has already done the first not-death, if that matters) in a way that would kill a human but won't kill him? (Like, gaping chest wound, something like that.) I'm pretty sure he has at least a period of, shall we say, limited activity, but how long is he down for? And exactly how limited is his activity? And what happens - like, do the wounds visibly close over and heal, or does he just suddenly sit up all better, or what?

As much detail as you've got, that's how much I'd like.

And if you know any sources for getting this kind of information without bugging my friends list - like, a Highlander encyclopedia or whatever - I would love to know about it.

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It's been a while since I've seen the canon, but I'm pretty sure cutting their heads off is the only way to permanently kill them. Anything else that would kill a normal person will kill them, but it's only temporary--they come back to life. How long that takes depends on the way they were killed and, of course, the needs of the script. Same thing with the first time they die--they die, and then they come back to life. The age they die the first time is the age they remain, so if they're killed the first time as a kid, they stay a kid, and if they die late, they're older. Oh, and I think they have to die a violent death the first time to come back as an immortal.

The first time an immortal dies (and any other time after that, when a mortal wound is given) they spend a little time sort of "dead", while they are healing, and then start up again.

I'm sure others will answer more completely, but here goes:

1. Pretty much the head thing is it. I would imagine that in the future, total disintegration would do it, but right now, head is it. I think one was even burned at the stake and came back. Don't know how severed the head has to be - however, based on one arc, a wound to the throat will not heal as completely as other wounds. Oh, and they can't regrow limbs.

2 & 3. Don't have to be buried, no. How long it takes is a bit inconsistent, as it how long it takes for them to come back from a "death" after they become immortal. It might depend on the severity of the wound(s). There've been times when the new or not-new immortal has made it all the way to the morgue before waking up, and times when it happened in minutes. They do, actually, even after becoming immortal, seem to "die" from serious wounds. It just doesn't take, as it were.

I think they have to die a violent death the first time to come back as an immortal

Not really. Just an untimely one. Amanda dies from the plague the first time around, if I recall correctly.

1. Beheading's pretty much it. Probably vaporizing or incinerating or engineering a nasty transporter beam accident would do it, but beheading's all we get in canon. Canon suggests that the spinal column and cord have to be severed at the neck for it to stick. Lesser neck-wounds won't kill, but can permanently disfigure. There are a few villains who have permanently damaged vocal cords or scarred throats from having their throats cut but the spine left intact.

2. I think this one's been debated in fandom for a long time, but to be honest, I was never really in fandom for this one. The pre-Immortal seems to have to "die" violently for Immortality to kick in. Going peacefully in your sleep won't do it. Being hit by a bus will. There's a suggestion in canon that pre-Immortals who have lived too long without dying will feel their biological clocks implode and kill themselves violently, but we never see it happen -- some characters aren't surprised by the suggestion it could happen, however. They don't have to be buried or share blood or any mystical whatsits, but traditionally there are embarrassing incidents in hospital meatlockers.

3. He appears, in all important senses, to be "dead" for as long as the plot requires. This can range from about fifteen seconds (the time it takes a hysterical lover who has just seen a point proven to stop sputtering and get on the phone to EMS) to several hours (the time it takes for the designated hero to do his thing). When the plot allows for his revival, cool crawly lightning things flicker over the wound and the Immortal wakes up gasping and feeling like ass. Ass that's been dead for a bit.

Amanda died from a sharp blow to the head while trying to steal from the guy collecting the bodies of plague victims. I don't think she ever had the plague herself.

According to canon the only way to permanantly kill an immortal is to cut off their head. There is one bad guy whose throat got slit badly but not enough to decapitate him, he was left with a scar and it fucked up his voice (he used to be a singer)

Immortals do not know they are mortal until after their first death. The first death seems to take longer to recover from. But yeah, they pretty much just pop back up - unless, like, they have been stabbed in the heart and the knife gets left in the wound, they don't recover until the knife is removed and the body heals itself.

Non fatal wounds heal almost instantly, and it's visible - little blue lightening-looking arcs of light sizzle over the wound and close it.

Do you need more specifics than that? Anything else? (HL was my first fandom ever, I can tell you pretty much whatever you need. *G*)

1. Cutting their head off is the only way to ensure an immortal is dead. It's the only permanent method.

2. They live normal lives, just like you and me, till suddenly something comes along and BAM dead. Like, say, being run over by a train. problem is, they're frozen at whatever age they're at when they die the first time, which raises troubling issues with the few children who become immortals. It's also one hell of a mindjob. It also gives them a "sixth sense" that allows them to notice when other immortals are nearby, which is a double-edged sword - it lets them know to hightail it out of there if they get too close, but it also means the other immortal can sense them, too!

3. There's like maybe a period of thirty seconds for any recovery time from anything other than decapitation, I think. Basically, enough time to shoot them and make a break for it, but not enough time to hail a cab and get far enough away to really get some headway. And yes, the wounds visibly heal, although the series has never been too clear on where the bullets go when they recover from being shot.

Used to be a big HL-series nut when I was a kid.

Thank you! This was very helpful. (And I had no idea you'd even seen HL canon. Wow. The things you learn about your friends when you're asking them stupid questions.)

So, like, they have some down time. And then they just start like a new battery has been swapped in. Okay, good to know. Thank you!

I'm just going to nodd encouragingly at what they said, since I don't think you need it repeated again. However I will point you at a site I know of with good Higlander Reviews. It's not really set up for easy brousing for facts about the show, but they do have some really detailed episode reviews for (I think) all of the episodes in the series. I hope it's useful.

http://members.tripod.com/~theheasleys/reviews.html

Thank you!

I would imagine that in the future, total disintegration would do it, but right now, head is it.

I had wondered about that - like, presumably if the head is destroyed, into component atoms, that counts as severing. But merely having it crushed probably wouldn't kill them?

Oh, and they can't regrow limbs.

I totally did not know that. Oooops. But, hey, it's fixable.

They do, actually, even after becoming immortal, seem to "die" from serious wounds. It just doesn't take, as it were.

I bet the "I'm getting better! I think I'll go for a walk. I feel happy!" joke has been done to death in that fandom.

Aw, Highlander. One of my first fandoms, lo, these many years ago. Everybody else has covered the answers to your questions, pretty much. I just wanted to wallow in the nostalgia for a moment. *g*

I think if the crushing severs the spine, it probably would. Like, if it were totally flattened, it would be detached anyway.

And yeah, we have can evidence that they can't regrow limbs. Duncan cut of Xavier St. Cloud's hand, and he appeared later with a hook, I think.

Also, I now have "I am not dead yet. I can do the highland fling," stuck in my head.

Thank you!

Probably vaporizing or incinerating or engineering a nasty transporter beam accident would do it, but beheading's all we get in canon.

I had wondered about that, as I was saying to

cereta. And now I'm thinking - I bet there's a lot of HL crossover FF that answers questions like, "What happens if an immortal is hit three times by a Jaffa staff weapon?"

The pre-Immortal seems to have to "die" violently for Immortality to kick in. Going peacefully in your sleep won't do it. Being hit by a bus will.

Ah-ha! This is precisely what I needed to know, and it works nicely. (Also, I notice that a lot of people seem to be capitalizing "Immortal." Is that canonical, or fannish convention, or just, you know, because?)

He appears, in all important senses, to be "dead" for as long as the plot requires.

How very handy. I bet that frustrated the hell out of the fans - "But there's no logic to it!" - but it's very useful for me. *pleased*

When the plot allows for his revival, cool crawly lightning things flicker over the wound and the Immortal wakes up gasping and feeling like ass. Ass that's been dead for a bit.

Again, this is key. So I'm guessing immortals try to avoid dying, even in a non-fatal way, when they can.

And, hmmm. Seems like the non-fatal kinds of kills would be very useful to do to your immortal opponents in a duel; that way, they're down for the count while you lop off the head. Cutting a head clean off is not easy, even with a very good sword.

Hi! ::waves::
there are more knowledgeable HL fans than me, (and movie HL canon is somewhat different than tv HL canon--I'm basing my answers on the tv show) but this is what I understand:

1.cutting off heads is it. If the immortal's Quickening goes to another immortal, then the first immortal is definitely gone. (in canon, immortals *have* survived serious wounds to the throat/neck area, but with longlasting scars--immortals usually heal w/out scars.)

2. most people would assume the injury or whatever just hadn't been as bad as they thought, so - do some of them have to die a lot before they figure it out?
That's exactly what happens. Eventually, another immortal finds them and (usually) either becomes their teacher or finds them a teacher. Sometimes, a bad immortal who preys on baby immortals finds them first and kills them permanently by cutting off their head and taking their quickening.

3. If an immortal is shot in a way that would kill a mortal, he'll go down and appear to be dead. For how long depends on how serious the "killing blow" was. When the wounds heal themselves, the immortal will suddenly "wake up"--in the tv show, usually with a dramatic gasp. The immortal is vulnerable while "temporarily dead," in that another immortal can come along and cut off his head while he's helpless. (this is one area where tv and movie canon differ. I think in the movies, the immortal just keeps on walking around and heals pretty much instantaneously. I'm not sure though, since I haven't watched the movies as often as the tv show.)

hope that helps...

Thank you!

There is one bad guy whose throat got slit badly but not enough to decapitate him, he was left with a scar and it fucked up his voice (he used to be a singer)

Great. And he had to live with it forever. I bet that made him grouchy.

But yeah, they pretty much just pop back up

Probably causing heart attacks in everyone around them who doesn't know about this neat trick. Yeesh.

Do you need more specifics than that?

Not right now - y'all have been incredibly helpful. (If you want to know things, ask a fan - that is my motto.) But since you offered - if I end up with more questions later, may I email you with them? That way I could just spam you, instead of my whole friends list! (Yes, I know, not such a hot deal for you. But I will be grateful and stuff, if that helps any.)

Thank you.

They live normal lives, just like you and me, till suddenly something comes along and BAM dead.

And now, thanks to recent experiences (http://thefourthvine.livejournal.com/71955.html), I am picturing immortals saying, "1, 2, 3, BAM! Dead! Whoops, no, fooled you - totally not dead!"

It also gives them a "sixth sense" that allows them to notice when other immortals are nearby, which is a double-edged sword - it lets them know to hightail it out of there if they get too close, but it also means the other immortal can sense them, too!

Well, now I'm confused. I mean, this isn't something I need to know for my nefarious purposes, but - okay. Isn't it true that when Duncan first met Methos, he was pretending not to be immortal? And Duncan didn't know right away? Shouldn't he have known, if he had the immortal-sensing thing going for him?

Used to be a big HL-series nut when I was a kid.

The closest I came was endlessly renting the HL movie with my sister. And, sadly, it turned out (when I re-watched the movie as an adult) that I totally did not understand it.

(Thing is, there are some of us, well, at least one... who dig reading all this. Y'know?)

Oh, thank you! That will be helpful.

*clicks*

*bookmarks*

*grins*

Feel free to wallow. My comments section is totally open for all wallowing-related activities!

(And did I know you were a HL fan and forget, or did I somehow miss that? Either way, I am learning many things about people tonight.)

(Also, I notice that a lot of people seem to be capitalizing "Immortal." Is that canonical, or fannish convention, or just, you know, because?)

I ... think it's canon? Pretty sure the tie-in novels capitalize it, and characters on the t.v. series always seem to say it with Portentousness of Great Capitalization. If it's not canon, then it's fannish convention I never questioned. Dou have Immortals a.k.a. Immies, pre-Immies who haven't met their first death yet, and Kimmies/K-Immies/K'Immies, immortal villains of the week whose names seem to use more than their fair shares of the K supply.

Again, this is key. So I'm guessing immortals try to avoid dying, even in a non-fatal way, when they can.

Yep. Most of them seem to think it pretty much sucks every time. There's a conversation a newbie Immortal has with Our Hero, who is trying with rapidly failing patience to explain the facts of semi-eternal life to her:

n00b: You mean I can drink all of this and not die? *hugs Our Hero's liquor cabinet*
Our Hero: Not permanently, but you'll wish you could.

Oh, and that's a note of interest: alcohol, opiates, potent poisons, and other entertaining chemicals affect Immortals, though not necessarily in the way they affect the rest of us, and, of course, any resultant fatalities just piss them off more when they wake up.

Seems like the non-fatal kinds of kills would be very useful to do to your immortal opponents in a duel; that way, they're down for the count while you lop off the head. Cutting a head clean off is not easy, even with a very good sword.

Well, in our world, no, but in Highlander-verse, human necks and warm butter seem to share a consistency. Quite often, when an Immortal has clearly been bested, i.e. disarmed and forced to his knees, he'll just give up and kneel their passively while Our Hero gets the last word in and delivers the coup de swish.

Some bad baddies like to use ambushes, projectiles, or other cheats to disable their opponents before going for the kill. Non-baddies -- and some villains -- consider this a violation of the cardinal rules of the Game, but, uh, who's gonna tattle when it happens?

At least two.

And now, thanks to recent experiences, I am picturing immortals saying, "1, 2, 3, BAM! Dead! Whoops, no, fooled you - totally not dead!"

*dies laughing*

Well, now I'm confused. I mean, this isn't something I need to know for my nefarious purposes, but - okay. Isn't it true that when Duncan first met Methos, he was pretending not to be immortal? And Duncan didn't know right away? Shouldn't he have known, if he had the immortal-sensing thing going for him?

That, I'm afraid, I cannot tell you, as I have never seen that ep, and am not aware of where I could go to give you an answer to that.

I suggest you ask Kat. She knows Methos' canon well enough to give you an answer better than "you try living over 5000 years and see how good you get at pretending to be something you're not," which is my guess for how they handwaved it, being as I haven't seen it.

But to my knowledge, the only time an immortal's failed to sense another immortal is when they're inescapably distracted by something else. Like, say, having sex. I think. As I said, something sufficiently distracting! Or maybe it isn't always on? To the best of my knowledge, I cannot remember any time where it wasn't always there as a way for Duncan or Methos or Richie to jump up and go "oh shit, immortal-of-the-week is here!"

(Another possibility might be that Methos could have been accompanied/ "followed" by another immortal and Duncan could have confused his sense going off around Methos as his sense going off around the other immortal, instead.)

Duncan knew Methos was Immortal when he met him. We got the sound effect that indicates one Immortal sensing another. Duncan wasn't expecting they guy he was there to meet to be Immortal, and damned sure wasn't expecting him to be Methos, but he knew the former instantly and somehow intuited the latter.

The closest I came was endlessly renting the HL movie with my sister. And, sadly, it turned out (when I re-watched the movie as an adult) that I totally did not understand it.

The movie's mostly pretty 80s wheeee. Most canon comes from the series, anyhow -- the movie may or may not jive with it.

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Any Highlander fans out there? I have some questions.

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