thefourthvine: Two people fucking, rearview: sex is the universal fandom. (Default)
Keep Hoping Machine Running ([personal profile] thefourthvine) wrote2011-01-25 12:10 pm

213: Being Any Gender Is a Drag

There was so much interest in the whole peeing-behind-dumpsters poll (important items learned: only 10% of you think peeing behind dumpsters is no big deal, but 25% of you would tell your co-workers about it anyway, because in fandom it isn't really oversharing until you're sending sex toys to actors) that I sort of thought I should do a whole watersports recs set, but that didn't work out. I just don't have enough links.

So I'm doing gender-related stories instead. (It's - sort of relevant. It's certainly true that peeing is way more of an issue for the vagina-equipped than for people with penises. Okay, fine, whatever, maybe it isn't related. Gender-related recs: I has them.)

The One That Teaches Us That in Smallville, It's Very Important to Have an Emergency Sex Change Wardrobe Fund. Budgeting in Smallville Must Be Complicated. Skin Deep, by [personal profile] rivkat. Smallville, Clark Kent/Lex Luthor.

Okay, first, I just need to extend a quick warning. If you listen to music while you're reading this, don't let any of it be Part of Your World from the Little Mermaid soundtrack. Because after a while, you will decide that that is the song for Smallville and genderfuckery, and you'll have constructed most of a vid in your head, and, and - I'm just saying. "Wouldn't you say I'm the girl, the girl who has everything?" THAT'S LEX, people. He yearns to be part of Clark's world! Meanwhile, Clark is yearning to be a real human boy! It makes so much sense! In that way where you can tell your brain is overheating!

Anyway. In this one, the situation is a little more complicated than Clark just yearning to be a real human boy, because for most of this, he's actually female, in terms of his actual physical body. The Kryptonians apparently believed in punative sex swapping, which is exactly how I always pictured them, because, well. They have all this awesome technology that should be great fun, and instead they use it to blow up their own planet. I mean, seriously. They can fly through space and make sentient computers and they go the trite old world-destroying cataclysm route? Please. (Now, if I thought Krypton was destroyed by Kryptonian MythBusters in search of the perfect boom, I would like them lots better. But no. I bet it was all dramatic and angsty and political. I just cannot respect these people.) And so I totally believe that they could discover sex-switching technology and immediately think, Well, this will make a suitable punishment for unruly teenagers.

So, yeah, Clark earns the Kryptonian Sex Change Smackdown in this, and - I like to think this is thanks to the influences of humanity on him - immediately puts it to excellent use by fucking Lex basically nonstop for months. (And here I really must say: Oh, Clark. You could have done that before. It must be your Kryptonian side that insists on making everything so damned complicated.)

And then the awesomeness continues from there. I'm not going to go into details, though, becauseI really don't want to spoil it. (Nor do I want to win some poor vidder in a charity auction and force her to make a vid for it, set to Part of Your World. Really. Not at all. I mean it.)

The One That Proves Definitively That John Watson Can Only Truly Love Someone Smarter, Wickeder, and More Talented Than He Is. Intemperance, by [personal profile] basingstoke. Sherlock Holmes, and I'm gonna call this gen.

One of the things that I find totally entrancing about the canon Holmes stories - as opposed to their weaknesses, which, okay, not getting into that here - is that we only have Watson's word for it. That's the joy of the first-person narrator (and the heartbreak of the eyewitness). If he wants to make shit up, he can. If I want to believe that he's making shit up, I can. If someone wants me to believe that there's more to the story than Watson was able to tell us, she can try to make me. And if that person is [personal profile] basingstoke, it turns out that I will, in fact, believe her.

Because this story works. I mean - okay, I think I am giving nothing away (since it's right there at the beginning, and also in the notes, pretty much) when I say that this is FTM Holmes basically exactly as he would actually be - in other words, he'd manage everything with unprecedented brilliance right up until he went off the rails at breakneck speed and needed Watson to rescue him. (Sherlock Holmes: really having no clear understanding of the concepts of limits or boundaries since 1887.) And this is just so fucking amazing I am in awe, and a little bit speechless at how perfectly this is done, how much it makes sense, how incredible it is. Really, I can't tell you. If you haven't read it, you will just have to see for yourself. (Now's a good time.)

But I have another love in this story, and that is Mary Watson, nee Morstan. She is perfect in this, a perfect match for both Holmes and Watson, which is precisely what someone would have to be to marry John Watson. And she's smart and kind and tough and she learns to cook using Mrs. Beeton's book, which fills me with joy because I am currently reading that book. (And I just need to say this: that woman used her mortar and pestle the way most cooks use a knife. It's horrifying. Was everything boiled, ground to a pulp, pushed through a sieve, and flavored with mace in nineteenth century England? Apparently so. I prefer to think that Mary Watson focused on the non-pulpy recipes, though, largely because I think if you tried to serve that shit to a pregnant person, you'd end up with it up your nose, and deservingly so.)

Anyway. My point is: this is an awesome story. Read it for the perfection of an FTM Sherlock Holmes, read it for the terror of a pregnant and housebound Sherlock Holmes, or read it for the love of Mary Watson, but read it.

Just don't read it with Part of Your World still in the background. I am really serious about this.

The One in Which We Learn the Medically-Approved, More Sensible Carrying-over-the-Threshold Technique. If You're Getting Married, You Might Want to Read This Just for That. A Perfect Honeymoon, by [livejournal.com profile] delilah_joy. Some Like It Hot, Daphne/Osgood Fielding III. (Sorry. According to the IMDb, neither Daphne nor Jerry has an actual last name. Feel free to make something up.)

I cannot be the only one who got to the ending of Some Like It Hot and went, "Did they just DO that? I thought they weren't allowed to do that in black and white times! I thought they had rules against this kind of thing, and sweet virgin audiences who had never had sex and who were in fact probably not anatomically correct!" (Look, all I'm saying is, Barbie came from the black and white era.) But they did, in fact, just do that, and I love them for it. (Those black and white times, I later discovered through haphazard study, were much racier than I had suspected. They had sex back then! And probably all the body parts we have today! And people who had sex with people of their same gender! All kinds of stuff. Crazy. Black and white times: not just single beds for married couples.)

A Perfect Honeymoon turns that ending from a joke - I mean, a joke you could definitely read two ways, but still - to a love story. (And, uh, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, just go watch Some Like It Hot. Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon in drag! Marilyn Monroe! Seriously, this is required viewing.) It's exactly where I wanted this movie to go without every knowing, and it works and makes sense and fills my heart with glee and - oh, look, you're going to have to read it. I don't think I can discuss it at all rationally.

I tell you what, though: this story is a gloriously sweet, romantic, gentle, genderqueer story. I could do with many more of those. Although I'm not sure how you get that - I mean, this is fandom. And yet [livejournal.com profile] delilah_joy wrote a sweet, romantic story about an established relationship that is the furthest thing from curtainfic. I - I am not actually sure that is allowed. I thought we had rules against that kind of thing, too. But apparently not, and for this I say: yay! (Growing up: a lengthy process of discovering that most of the rules don't actually exist.)

The One That Describes a Country Song I'd Really Like to Hear. Seriously. Links Requested. The Spirit and the Letter, by [personal profile] lightgetsin. Dresden Files, Harry Dresden/John Marcone.

I am not up on the Dresden canon. Like, not at all. (I did watch several episodes of the series, but I gather from those who know that it is Not the Same Thing at All.) Here's what I know: There's a wizard named Harry Dresden. He lives in Chicago. He has a talking skull. I also suspect, but do not know for sure, that he's kind of a tool sometimes.

That's not a lot to go on (name me a character popular with fandom who isn't kind of a tool sometimes - I mean, there are some, I'm sure, but I'm not coming up with any off the top of my head). And yet. It's all I needed to know to love this story, in which Harry Dresden pisses someone off - I get the feeling that's not really unusual for him, though - and gets a vagina for his troubles.

(What is it with the punitive sex changes? I - I just find it fascinating. Plus, I can't help thinking about the punitive sex changes other fandom characters could get. John Sheppard becomes a girl because of his total failure to admit that he has ever had a feeling, and grimly represses his feelings about that, too. Aeryn Sun is turned into a boy for crimes probably relating to being a total badass, and snaps, "I already have a gun. Why would I want a dick?" Lionel Luthor turns Lex into a girl to punish him for being, you know, Lex, and Lex grimly says, "I can work with this," and does. Morgana is turned into a boy for being such a wicked, wicked sorceress, and hacks the person who did it to pieces with a sword. Sherlock Holmes is turned into a girl until he can actually be a decent human being sincerely, and "decent to John Watson" turns out not to count, so he has to stay a girl forever. Seriously - now that I think about it, every fandom imaginable needs this trope.)

And Harry Dresden is not exactly the most, um, delicate ambassador between the sexes, let's put it that way. (Clark is way better than Harry at dealing with the punitive sex change. Let's think about that. Clark is a) a teenager and b) Clark Kent, and he totally outshines Harry at coping and being a functional human being. Mr. Dresden, your therapist is on line two. Weeping uncontrollably. I imagine that happens a lot, though.)

So, you know, I don't know the canon, and I don't the characters, and I still loved this, because apparently dysfunctional human being + unwanted sex change = good times, fannishly speaking. It certainly does in this story.
erika: (sga: 5 o'clock somewhere!)

[personal profile] erika 2011-01-25 08:36 pm (UTC)(link)
John Sheppard becomes a girl because of his total failure to admit that he has ever had a feeling, and grimly represses his feelings about that, too.

And yet, I feel as if I've read this.
feanna: The cover of an old German children's book I inherited from my mother (Default)

[personal profile] feanna 2011-01-25 08:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, there was that phase were there was a sudden abundance of (mostly actually pretty great, yay SGA fandom! and some were amazing) genderswap/genderfuck fic in the fandom, there was even a comm founded and all that. (http://community.livejournal.com/sga_genderfuck/ and for the epic http://auburnnotlisa.livejournal.com/)
So, given John's general tendencies, I'm sure there were enough fics of him being emotionally stupid in there (I don't think it was ever punishment for not being emotional enough explicitely, but: details, I mean sometimes the reason was to expand horizons.)
feanna: The cover of an old German children's book I inherited from my mother (Default)

[personal profile] feanna 2011-01-25 08:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Reading your recs is as much fun as reading the good stuff you rec and also very funny!
I totally know the second fic, and it was great.
I've never actually watched Smalville, though I don't think you can exist in fandom without getting a certain idea of who those guys are (it happens with other shows too, there's a reason it's called fannish osmosis), and PUNITIVE SEX CHANGE!, so I might have to check that out!

I might also have to check out the other version of the PSC, because I love the Dresden Files books, though I am normally adverse to the pairing.
You're right about Harry (and the fact that the tv show and the books are NOT the same thing at all), though one of the things I love the books for is that Harry actually DOES learn some stuff as he goes along.

I totally googled the ending of that movie, heh, so that's where that quote's from.

My only complaint now is that I really, really, really DO NOT have time to read all of this! Sobs!
feanna: The cover of an old German children's book I inherited from my mother (Default)

[personal profile] feanna 2011-01-25 08:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, I totally forgot to say this just now:
You should totally do watersports recs, and if not rect at least a collection with caveats?
The only links I can contribute are some Trek kink_meme short stuff, but in case you care:
http://jamaharon.livejournal.com/2185.html
http://community.livejournal.com/st_xi_kink_meme/2654.html?thread=1778526#t1778526
http://community.livejournal.com/st_xi_kink_meme/9684.html?thread=8960468#t8960468
http://community.livejournal.com/st_xi_kink/4765.html?thread=12147613#t12147613
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)

[personal profile] azurelunatic 2011-01-25 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Harry Dresden ... Harry Dresden is slightly more functional than Mulder, because he has a keen awareness of exactly how much he is totally incapable of functioning within anything like normal society, and Mulder seems to be cheerfully oblivious. But Mulder is an urbane and sophisticated asshole with a nice rental car, a suit and a badge and a hopelessly frustrated civilizing influence in the person of Scully. Dresden has the beat-up-ass old VW Bug, the getting-progressively-less-nice black trenchcoat, and very few people from whom he will actually accept an admonishment. I don't think Mulder believes he's actually an asshole except if he's very very drunk. Dresden knows, doesn't really care.
brownbetty: (Default)

[personal profile] brownbetty 2011-01-26 06:28 am (UTC)(link)
I always read Harry Dresden as one of those people who secretly believes his flaws are virtues, so he can be smug about them. Like, “Yeah, you caught me, I just can't kick my habit of chivalry.” Because he believes deep down, despite being told and repeatedly kicked in the nuts, that women are a class of people who he should protect, and offer pointless courtesies to.

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derryderrydown: (Default)

[personal profile] derryderrydown 2011-01-25 09:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Was everything boiled, ground to a pulp, pushed through a sieve, and flavored with mace in nineteenth century England? Apparently so.

My great-great-grandfather, and his father, and his father's father, were chefs of some renown in Victorian England. I have some of the recipe books that were handed down.

Yes. Yes, everything was boiled.

(The one who exhibited at the Great Exhibition was a world authority on icing. I have pictures of his work and it's very, very pretty, but it was lard. He iced with lard. That's the point when you stop pretending to be a chef and just admit you're a modern artist.)

[personal profile] vito_excalibur 2011-01-26 06:05 am (UTC)(link)
Never try to learn what Zingers are frosted with, then, is my advice.

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schemingreader: (Default)

[personal profile] schemingreader 2011-01-25 09:56 pm (UTC)(link)
This is the second or third time I've gone to reread a fic that I've already read, commented on and recced, because your rec was so compelling that I thought, "I really should reread that now that I truly understand why I liked it."
laurashapiro: Yitzhak and Hedwig sing and glare at each other. (hedwig)

[personal profile] laurashapiro 2011-01-25 10:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I love that Some Like It Hot story so much!
megaptera: Megaptera novaeangliae (Default)

[personal profile] megaptera 2011-01-26 01:34 am (UTC)(link)
The awesome thing about Mary in Intemperance? SHE DOESN'T DIE. It seems like most stories involving Mary have that. Or maybe it's just that most of what I read is slash.
basingstoke: crazy eyes (Default)

[personal profile] basingstoke 2011-01-26 05:36 am (UTC)(link)
Oh DUDE. She might die later, because this was The Victorian Era and people dropped dead from drafts, but like FUCKING HELL was I corpsing her in MY story.

I can't blame SH fandom too hard for fridging Mary, because it's right there in the canon, but... I'm not going to.

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queue: Q in a corset, starred by andeincascade (Default)

[personal profile] queue 2011-01-26 02:24 am (UTC)(link)
...is it just me, or are most punitive!sexchanges MTF? (Including Holmes as you describe Basingstoke's story above, unless I am misunderstanding dreadfully, which is, let's face it, possible.)

You make me want to vid that. And I don't vid. *runs, scared*
via_ostiense: Eun Chan eating, yellow background (Default)

[personal profile] via_ostiense 2011-01-26 04:07 am (UTC)(link)
In Basingstoke's story, Holmes is FTM, and it's not punitive as I understand it.

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basingstoke: VULVA (VULVA)

[personal profile] basingstoke 2011-01-26 05:41 am (UTC)(link)
bweeeeeeeeeeeeee

Apparently Intemperance is my masterwork. I'm okay with that. I might show it to my parents some day. :D
out_there: B-Day Present '05 (SH John wallpaper by slashybits)

[personal profile] out_there 2011-01-26 06:00 am (UTC)(link)
It is very, very awesome. So there's good reason to be okay with that.

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gozer: Made by Nakedwesley (The Devil You Say!)

[personal profile] gozer 2011-01-26 05:46 am (UTC)(link)
One thing I've noticed about MTF is that the character's (head) hair often seems to grow longer when the penis comes off... as if it was a secondary sex characteristic for women to have longer hair then men. Sadly, that immediately throws me out of a story (and a lot quicker than a character spontaneously acquiring a penis where there was previously none, or likewise losing it.) I strongly suspect it's because the author wants her character to be accepted by the other characters as "pretty", and they feel nobody will if she has really, really "man-short" hair, but I wish they'd leave the character's hair alone. Honestly, with all the genderfuck in Smallville, whenever somebody wrote Lex as a woman, (s)he always left off being bald! As if "bald" wasn't a proudly defining characteristic of Lex Luthor, no matter what.

Thanks for the recs, you reminded me of how much I love [personal profile] rivkat's work and I enjoyed reading her story again.
feanna: The cover of an old German children's book I inherited from my mother (Default)

[personal profile] feanna 2011-01-26 08:19 am (UTC)(link)
Heh, the suddenly longer hair is a pet pieve of mine as well! So, what that machine swapped your chromosomes? That doesn't mean that your hear hair suddenly grew, I mean people don't come out of this with suddenl longer fingernails either. (I hope I haven't given anybody ideas about that now.)

I was fine with the longer hair in the Dresden Files story here though, because Harry gets turned into a women by his fairy godmother who is totally the type to include longer hair in her magical spell/curse.

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[personal profile] vito_excalibur 2011-01-26 06:03 am (UTC)(link)
I just kind of had my mind blown by the people who were like "it must be awful to have to deal with a dumpster that someone has peed near", or "clearly her peeing behind the dumpster was an expression of her contempt for that part of the city". Because my experience of cities is, there is no square inch of any given city that has not been peed on! Because cities sort of by definition have to have a large population, and that means that any city contains quite a large number of men! And men pee on everything! EVERYTHING. Everything that will hold still, and in some cases, also things that are moving, so that they can make a game out of aiming.

Boys also do this.

But nobody gives them shit about it. Probably because if you tried, they would pee on you.
gozer: tweeter made this! (Give her a pony!)

[personal profile] gozer 2011-01-26 06:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I have to say, when I was a little girl, I lived on a lovely tree-lined street in Brooklyn where you just didn't smell urine anywhere, ever. Then an OTB (Off-Track Betting) was put in up the corner, and suddenly my little-girl mind was blown, because there were skeezy men peeing everywhere. And the OTB had a bathroom, so these guys actually *chose* to pee against the wall and under cars (UNDER CARS, LIKE THEY WERE CHECKING OUT THE UNDERCARRIAGE BUT WERE REALLY JUST PEEING!) rather than use an indoor bathroom. Years later, the OTB was closed down, and suddenly the urine odor in the neighborhood completely disappeared everywhere, like magic! So a lot of people do live in places where you just do not smell urine, ever, and it's quite a shock when they come across it. They are genuinely innocent of the knowledge of that smell and feel the need to attach some greater meaning to it when it happens.

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brownbetty: (Default)

[personal profile] brownbetty 2011-01-26 06:25 am (UTC)(link)
I think my favourite moment in The Spirit and the Letter is when Harry goes, “Wait a second, that bagel dude was flirting with me!”

Ladies and Gentlemen, Harry Dresden.
soc_puppet: Words "Mad Fangirl" in blue (Mad Fangirl)

[personal profile] soc_puppet 2011-01-26 07:44 am (UTC)(link)
This could not have been better timing. I was just thinking that I could use a long, juicy fic or three to sink my teeth into for a few hours, forget the world, and voila! A delightful set of recs appears on my reading page. It's like magic.

...I wish I had a million dollars! *looks around* Aw, drat; it must've worn off :(
eisen: Kumi (bearing arms). (we share our mother's health.)

[personal profile] eisen 2011-01-26 10:13 pm (UTC)(link)
What is it with the punitive sex changes? I - I just find it fascinating. Plus, I can't help thinking about the punitive sex changes other fandom characters could get. John Sheppard becomes a girl because of his total failure to admit that he has ever had a feeling, and grimly represses his feelings about that, too. Aeryn Sun is turned into a boy for crimes probably relating to being a total badass, and snaps, "I already have a gun. Why would I want a dick?" Lionel Luthor turns Lex into a girl to punish him for being, you know, Lex, and Lex grimly says, "I can work with this," and does. Morgana is turned into a boy for being such a wicked, wicked sorceress, and hacks the person who did it to pieces with a sword. Sherlock Holmes is turned into a girl until he can actually be a decent human being sincerely, and "decent to John Watson" turns out not to count, so he has to stay a girl forever. Seriously - now that I think about it, every fandom imaginable needs this trope.

Can I just - can I just say, as a trans person, and I want to say up front I'm not saying liking sex-swap fic is something to be ashamed of, it's actually an unfortunate kink of mine, because I often seek it out for the fantasy of being able to have a transition be that easy and then I get punched in the face by fic because of it, so I do actually understand the appeal - that the part where you are describing in loving terms, here, something that is an actually honest to god nightmare scenario for a lot of trans people is kind of problematic? I mean - "I don't like you, therefore I'm going to trap you in the wrong gender for the rest of your life" is not neither harmless nor a fantasy for a lot of us, it's a living nightmare: it's what doctors, managers, therapists, the entire medical establishment, and our own governments do to us every day already.

So it's kind of - hurtful to see you describing this situation with such glee, and also hurtful that you're doing so without any seeming awareness of how much this isn't a fantasy you're describing, either, but a part of someone's life that might trigger them.

I'm not trying to shame anyone for liking these stories, I'm sure it's a great fantasy for cis women to imagine being able to inflict cis men with "now you know what I feel like", but as someone who has to live with the sharp awareness of what it's like to live with the wrong sex, the wrong body, the wrong everything, seeing someone whose opinion I respect and enjoy glory in inflicting that on anyone and treat it like it's just a "fascinating" thought experiment was - really upsetting to read, that's all.
dingsi: The Corinthian smoking a cigarette. He looks down thoughtfully and breathes the smoke out of his nose. (Default)

[personal profile] dingsi 2011-01-27 12:22 am (UTC)(link)
<delurk> Thank you for saying something, and so eloquently at that. Up until very recently (i.e. not even half a year ago) one of my biggest fears was that my relatives would put my birth name on my gravestone when I died -- this is the image that, for me personally and as a trans man, ultimately represents "[having] to stay a girl forever". They could have done that if they wanted, and society would have backed them up. And that's just one detail out of many.
Like you, it's not the sex/gender swap scenario that I'm having a problem with, but the way it's being talked about in this case: the excitement over the punitive aspect and the lack of awareness. Reading it made me feel profoundly uncomfortable. (For the record: I'm not thinking it was deliberate on TFV's part. But it would have been upsetting either way, even with the best of intent.) </delurk>

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peoriapeoriawhereart: in red serge Benton looks askance (Benton looks back)

[personal profile] peoriapeoriawhereart 2011-01-28 08:14 am (UTC)(link)
Just thought I'd put this comment here, though I thought of it after reading the (apology) entry.

Holmes has 'transitioned' but perhaps hasn't transformed 'into'? Though (this is because he is Holmes, and my read is he does quite a bit of effect and protest too much in canon) he might be twitting Watson, or preemptively claiming 'fourth sex' and monster? Being Holmes, he could do both.

as to the 'punitive body change' fics, I think of them as whammy sex-change. Magic, aliens, whammy. Sheppard would need to apply physics and practice EVEN more with Teyla, might go more buzzcut. And admit to having an emotion, like being scared out of his gourd.

Not a 'punitive' but def a 'temporal-cultural visible lines showing' is in one of the published paperback fan written anthologies. Lots of Kirk doing his sturm and drang and Bones pointing out women have a lifetime to figure out how to work the world as women. Not as much about Uhura and Chappel dealing with changes.

Though, that Aeryn Sun fic, 'somebody' would think it was a 'reward' and it wouldn't be her. (at least that's how I took the 'barter' to imply gender relations.)

There's an interesting dS, where RayK knows it's for a set duration (not punitive, is whammy) but I don't recall title or author.

[identity profile] cattraine.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 08:40 pm (UTC)(link)
The second and third stories in the Spirit and Letter series are good too. And really, the books are NOT the same as the series.

[identity profile] kitewithfish.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
They are totally excellent stories. But, spoiler-warning for the latest book.

[identity profile] hannahrorlove.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 08:54 pm (UTC)(link)
punitive sex changes
I wrote something like that for House where it was more random circumstance than deliberate punishment, but there was still plenty of trying to figure out how to work with the new plumbing and social expectations of gender performance. If you're interested I could send you a link.

[identity profile] imkalena.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 09:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Clark is a) a teenager and b) Clark Kent, and he totally outshines Harry at coping and being a functional human being. Mr. Dresden, your therapist is on line two. Weeping uncontrollably.

I don't know what I'll think of this story, but I completely and totally adore YOU. :)

[identity profile] hollyxu.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
It's interesting that punitive sex changes (wow, that phrasing is just) tend to be more... well, punishing for men than women in stories. It's weird. Most women pick themselves up and go with it, occasionally evincing the desire to hack people to pieces, but the men? They go to pieces completely, to the point where I think it's actually a more effective punishment - because with women, it either doesn't change much or (surprise!) makes their lives better.

I dunno, I might be veering dangerously into wank territory, but that's how I see it.
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[identity profile] gwynevere1.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 09:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I dunno, I might be veering dangerously into wank territory, but that's how I see it.

You are not wanking at all. This is SO VERY TRUE, and something I did not even process until you put it into words. All the examples I could thinks of where the punitive sex changes actually, well, *punishes* are men-to-women, never the other way around.
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[identity profile] gwynevere1.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 09:24 pm (UTC)(link)
(What is it with the punitive sex changes? I - I just find it fascinating. Plus, I can't help thinking about the punitive sex changes other fandom characters could get. John Sheppard becomes a girl because of his total failure to admit that he has ever had a feeling, and grimly represses his feelings about that, too. Aeryn Sun is turned into a boy for crimes probably relating to being a total badass, and snaps, "I already have a gun. Why would I want a dick?" Lionel Luthor turns Lex into a girl to punish him for being, you know, Lex, and Lex grimly says, "I can work with this," and does. Morgana is turned into a boy for being such a wicked, wicked sorceress, and hacks the person who did it to pieces with a sword. Sherlock Holmes is turned into a girl until he can actually be a decent human being sincerely, and "decent to John Watson" turns out not to count, so he has to stay a girl forever. Seriously - now that I think about it, every fandom imaginable needs this trope.)

I . . . kind of want to run a comment-a-thon for this theme now. (Except that I've never run a comment-a-thon nor fic-a-thon before.)

There'd be so many more to explore! Shawn Spencer is turned is turned into a woman until he can stop being a jackass for more than thirty seconds in the presence of someone besides Gus and/or Henry; he quickly discovers that behavior that's considered "charming" or "boyish" in a man is dismissed as "bitchy" and/or "ditzy" from a woman. Michael Westen is changed into a woman until he can admit to the people in his life that he cares about them; his situation soon becomes more complicated when he goes to tell Fiona--and Fi shoots the strange woman entering her house. Jack Harkness is turned into a woman; nothing changes.

I'm going to be thinking about this for *weeks*.

[identity profile] feanna.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 09:41 pm (UTC)(link)
"Jack Harkness is turned into a woman; nothing changes."

Totally! Which really illustrates the point of why punitive sex changes (as they are written now, mostly, which also says a lot about what the author is actually writing about, because if we're talking gender dysphoria, then females can be just a affected) male to female work. They work because of the attitudes of the males that are subjected to them and the attitudes of the people around them, that are also reflected in how they act towards the changed. It works because the changed person has to suffer through prejudiced treatment and has to face their own prejudices. So gerderfuck fic in general tends to be about gender in society and less about gender in the individual. There are many more fics about guys who suddenly have to deal with people thiking them weak, staring at their boobs, treating them as incapable (and having to suffer period cramps) than there are fics that truly consider beyond the trappings of society what it means to be male or female. This is not necessarily criticism, it's just an observation. And of course neither factor can (in a good fic) be totally eliminated. (There is also the SGA epic where Teyla totally struggles with being turned male.)

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[identity profile] laughingacademy.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 09:33 pm (UTC)(link)
...read it for the terror of a pregnant and housebound Sherlock Holmes...

DEAR LORD. The prospect has me torn between horror and glee.

[identity profile] joyce.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I just finished reading it. Glee, trust me. :)

[identity profile] nix-this.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 09:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Woot! Dresden Files fic! My day, you have made it :D

[identity profile] fitofpique.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 10:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Sherlock Holmes is turned into a girl until he can actually be a decent human being sincerely, and "decent to John Watson" turns out not to count, so he has to stay a girl forever.

Now I can't stop thinking about a story where Watson is turned into a girl. I would love to see how Holmes would treat him, given his typical contempt/lack of use for women. Hrmmm.

The Dresden Files- GO READ THE CANON NOW.

[identity profile] kitewithfish.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Wait, you don't know The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher? Okay, stop what you were doing, go get these books NOW. Do not read any spoilers- the canon is snarky and wonderful and totally worth the incredibly brief time it takes to read these books. Marcone and Harry as slashy from BOOK ONE. and generally a little slashy in every book thereafter. And there is a lot of wonderful slashy fanfic of them.

(And, really, don't read any spoilers, cause the last book, "Changes", really did actually kind of... well, EXPLODE the slightly-predictable/wonderful noir-ish formula on which many of the previous books were based, and culminates a whole lot of build-up. And I am normally not a person who gives a damn about spoilers or getting spoiled for a book [I found out Snape killed Dumbledore by looking on Wikipedia, and I don't care] but this... this series is worth it. )

Re: The Dresden Files- GO READ THE CANON NOW.

[identity profile] feanna.livejournal.com 2011-01-25 10:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I second the bookrec! The first two books are a bit slower, but it gets better!
I don't like the Harry/Marcone pairing personally, but I won't deny the shlashyness of their scenes, I've just no desire ever to read them actually together, because that just don't works for me with how I read the characters and how they relate to each other. In my mind Harry would have to fall really far, so it'd have to be darkfic. But I'm not here to start a pairing debate. No matter what, the books are great! One of them does involve a child in a sucky situation, but she's not what I'd call helpless.
sentientcitizen: Rose Tyler throws her head back and laughs. (Default)

[personal profile] sentientcitizen 2011-01-25 10:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Aeryn Sun is turned into a boy for crimes probably relating to being a total badass, and snaps, "I already have a gun. Why would I want a dick?"

Can... can this be a real thing? Please? Someone? Anyone?
stasia: (Default)

[personal profile] stasia 2011-01-26 03:36 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, see, this is amazing to me! I SO agree. I wan tto read this. It's so perfectly funny and in character and omg, I want this story.

Stasia

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