Show Me, Show You

[thefourthvine]

Last night, I was talking to frostfire_17, and she described someone as "classically gorgeous."

I pointed out that I had no idea what that meant. I wasn't kidding. I really don't. Best Beloved has given up on me on this score; she has instituted a series of rules to keep me from getting attacked by a mob because I accidentally describe a celebrity as, for example, "oddly stretched" when that person is, in fact, the apex of beautiful perfection. (Sample rule: If I think a man looks like any member of the rodent family, he is in fact exceedingly attractive, and I should not share my opinion with others until I am sure they don't have pitchforks.) But I have always had the belief that if I simply looked at enough pictures, I wouldn't have this problem. (I have no problem, for the record, knowing what I mean by gorgeous. But I want to know what other people mean, too.)

Since I had a willing victim right there, last night I asked Frost to name some classically gorgeous people. It went sort of like this (names redacted for reasons that will become clear):

Frostfire: There's always [name of person].
Me, studying the results of a google search: He looks like a man who really wants to sell you expensive real estate, even though he was up all night doing lines off Aaron Sorkin's ass.
Frost: But when he was younger - okay. Never mind. How about [name of other person]?
Me: Seriously? Look at his Wikipedia photo!
Frost: Oh my GOD. Don't use the Wikipedia photos. Go to Google Image search like a normal person.
Me, managing to whine in text: But then there's too many pictures.
Frost, patiently: But I am going to tell you which pictures to look at. Okay, got it? First one, last one on the first row.
Me: ...How can those possibly be the same person?

At that point, I decided to call the experiment on the grounds of keeping Frost from hating me. But I still want to know what other people mean by gorgeous. I've just learned that what I need is for people with functioning Gorgeousness Determination Circuits to let me borrow their brains.

So, this is where you come in! If you have a functioning GDC and some time on your hands, that is. What I want - what I very very much want oh please oh please - is for you to pick out a specific photo of a famous person, one that you think embodies the term "classically gorgeous." (I am avoiding all other kinds of hotness for the moment, on the grounds that I am very easily confused, especially when looking at pictures.) Then post it here, so I do not get distracted by the plethora of images of that person on the internet. (One thing I learned last night: the more famous you are, the more truly awful photos of you there are in the world.)

And please remember to include the name of the person, because it's not like I will ever have a clue otherwise. (This is why I give up on "Post hot pictures!" threads. For one thing, I am never sure what kind of hot the posters mean. For another thing, I never have any idea who the people are, which makes it - confusing. Am I looking at the same person over and over? Or are these all different people? What is going on? Why do the pixels mock me? And then I have to close the tab or start ranting on street corners.)

Comments

[flamebyrd]

My mother once told me that gorgeous originally meant 'colourful', and it completely ruined the word for me. I am incapable of thinking of humans as gorgeous.

This is not helpful, I know.

(For the record, I have never been able to find a source that backs up this claim, but it gave me a complex all the same.)

[thatyourefuse]

Hermione Norris.

But I am not at all sure my GDC is functioning within normal parameters, so take with a few salt mines.

[barometry]

This is a very interesting inquiry! I hope you do not mind that I am de-lurking to respond!

I would like to offer the disclaimer that I suspect my definition of "classically gorgeous" might be different from other people's (whether other people agree among themselves, I have no idea). For me the prototypical Classically Gorgeous Person is:

* female
* probably filmed in black and white
* dark-lashed, and probably has (relatively) dark/heavy eyebrows
* would be described as "poised" or "elegant" or "sophisticated"

This photo of Elizabeth Taylor and this photo of Audrey Hepburn are good examples of what I have in mind.

I was actually looking up photos of both of them the other week, because both were featured in a series on Scandals of Classic Hollywood (more interesting than I would have thought!). I was struck by how different both of them looked in different photos -- Audrey Hepburn, in particular, seems to have been the subject of frequent changes in her (heavily manufactured) "image".

[marina]

I can't really deal with the notion of "classically gorgeous" without connecting it to whiteness and Caucasian features. It's absolutely indicative of my Eurocentric upbringing, but "classically gorgeous" at my house always meant light skin, light eyes, straight hair. Even someone who "looked Jewish" couldn't be considered "classically" gorgeous because the classics are, you know, drawn from pieces of art locked in European museums.

Obviously standards of beauty are inherently politically-socially charged, and perhaps in a US context this works entirely differently, but in my mind, as soon as "classical" comes into the context of beauty in predominantly white countries the selection tends to lean HEAVILY on white people and a certain ideal of whiteness.

/not helpful at all

So, in light of this, I will link to photos of celebrities who I think are universally or very widely appreciated for their hotness, and who I also find incredibly hot:

Takeshi Kaneshiro, Taye Diggs and Matt Bomer.

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

> a series on Scandals of Classic Hollywood (more interesting than I would have thought!)

... I read that as "Sandals of Classic Hollywood."

Also, TFV, seeing the aquiline noses in the photos people have linked to thus far, I keep thinking of your "rodent" comment *ruined*

[d_generate_girl]

I think of someone like Matt Bomer as an example of a "classically gorgeous" male, and someone like Jeri Ryan as a "classically gorgeous" woman.

By which, I mean that their features are what we'd consider aesthetically-pleasing from a Western point of view - blue eyes, pale skin, in shape, full lips. There are some unfortunate implications behind this classification (i.e. that bigger people, people of color, people with asymmetrical features are not gorgeous or worthy of being called beautiful), but that is what I believe is implied when someone uses the phrase "classically gorgeous".

[flourish]

I completely agree with this. Grace Kelly is the ultimate in classically beautiful to me. More important than the white/blonde thing though is the face shape, which is the kind of high cheekbones-straight nose-lips full but not too full shape which is very rare in the world and tends to show up in white people more often than any other group. (This is why Elizabeth Taylor also counts for this category. Modern example would be January Jones.)

When I was younger, I had many folks tell me (regretfully! as though I cared!) that I was pretty but not classically so because my face was too round. (I guess if classically beautiful is Elizabeth Taylor, I'm Debbie Reynolds...) it isn't just whiteness, or even blondness or facial balance, it's also lots of other factors!

I can list lots of other people that I think everyone would (should?) agree are beautiful, incl. Taye Diggs (JINX) but I don't think that "classically" is a term usually applied to them. Which, you know, is CLEARLY problematic, but language often is, so if we're just discussing the popular definition...

[isagel]

The phrase "classically gorgeous" makes me think of old-style, iconic movie stars. Like these people:

Ingrid Bergman:



Grace Kelly:



Cary Grant:


(My grandfather, who was a very handsome man all his life, had this type of face. Possibly that says something about how I define "classically" here.)

I do think, though, that in general the people I find most beautiful do not have perfect faces and so are not as breathtaking in stills as in moving pictures. Uniqueness and personality in a person's features tend to make them more gorgeous, but also less fitting any specific definition of what beauty is. So often it has to do with charisma. And of course that's doubly true about hotness.

But, hey, I read once that Denzel Washington is a perfect example of how beauty can be quantified as mathematical symmetry of features (or that mathematical symmetry of features is something most people find beautiful, or whatever), and since I do agree about his classical gorgeousness, have a picture of him *g*:

[marina]

Right, it's particular facial features as well, but again, it all boils down to whiteness and specifically "Nordic whiteness", to me. Obviously there are many factors that go into something like the definition of attractiveness, but the discourse on "classically" always leads there, in my experience of the contexts I've been part of.

Holliday Grainger

[teland]

I usually don't go for RP that young or that blonde, but watching her on the Borgias... well. Here. Interestingly (to me), she's nowhere near as captivating as a brunette, or with less old-timey hair.

[ratcreature]

I second Cary Grant for "classically gorgeous". He was the first to come to my mind for the male version as well. Gregory Peck works too.

[sophisted]

I have multiple ideals of male beauty. "Classically" gorgeous for me implies strong aquiline features. Strong brow, strong nose, square chin, etc. Like a Roman sculpture in flesh. Young Alan Rickman or Liam Neeson are great examples of this. (Roman invasion did WONDERFUL things to a decent portion of the GB gene pool.)

Alan Rickman and Liam Neeson

My other ideal is a more androgynous look, with an emphasis on sharp cheekbones and jawline. Cillian Murphey as Johnathon Crane, mostly because the glasses melt me internally. Cillian Murphey's particular features look best with a lot of hair, in my opinion.

For women, Elizabeth Taylor.

[flourish]

+!. We're on the same page.

[laurashapiro]

In a week from today I will point out for you some classically gorgeous people who attend Vividcon.

:D

[petra]

Christina Hendricks, and on the male side, Paul Gross.

I agree with other posters who note that "classically beautiful" is a very Western European-specific ideal. It's only incidentally congruent with "People I find extremely attractive."

[james]

I don't know how to post the image itself without hotlinking or stealing photos, so here are some URLs to click on:

Zoe Saldana


Lena Horne

Lena Horne younger

Josephine Baker

Brenda Song (I do not watch this show! I swear! Maybe a little.)

Shemar Moore

[svollga]

Michael Fassbender:

http://0.tqn.com/d/movies/1/0/1/g/X/x-men-first-class-photo-michael-fassbender5.jpg
http://0.tqn.com/d/movies/1/0/0/g/X/x-men-first-class-photo-michael-fassbender4.jpg
http://0.tqn.com/d/movies/1/0/q/2/X/jane-eyre-michael-fassbender-photo.jpg
http://ones2watch4.com/content/wp-content/gallery/michael-fassbender/fassy-9.jpg

[stasia]

(The first two links lead to a Happy Birthday to Cary Grant page...)

Stasia

[kindkit]

Seconding Michael Fassbender, but with different photos.

Or perhaps the young Ralph Fiennes.

You may notice that Fassbender and Fiennes are very much of a type. Which is my type, admittedly, but it also has to do with what other people have said about the very narrow range of attractiveness indicated by "classically gorgeous."

[stewardess]

I can think of a whole bunch of people who are gorgeous. I'm not sure what "classically" gorgeous means, but I suspect it means "white." :(

The phrase brings to mind Pierce Brosnan in Remington Steele. Which is not a look I care for at all (Pierce Brosnan at just about any other time = hot).

Hmmm. Maybe "classically gorgeous" means "white person with bad 80s hair" to me.

I'm with you on the rodent thing. There's a whole bunch of male celebrities who look like rodents. Tom Cruise!

[zillah975]

Tatiana Patitz

Katherine Hepburn

Lauren Bacall

Gina Torres

Linda Fiorentino

Nichelle Nichols

Halle Berry


For me, it's a thing of high cheekbones, even and symmetrical features, good skin, eyes and mouth neither too large nor too small, straight nose, and a...a certain regalness of bearing. Of course not everyone with those qualities is classically beautiful, and there are millions of people without them who are gorgeous, but those are the qualities I think of when I think "classical beauty".

I'd have to think harder on it to come up with examples of men, though off the top of my head, I'd say some classically handsome men would include Jude Law, Pierce Brosnan, Idris Elba, and the like.

[lastscorpion]

Alexander the Great, to put the classical in classically gorgeous. If my art history teacher in high school was right, those statues were originally painted, so they'd look less ghostly.
:-D

Thanks for bringing this topic up -- so many links to pretty pictures!

[kindkit]

I think the definition of "classically gorgeous" may be more variable or contested than I'd thought, because I'm finding myself in disagreement with many other folks' choices much more often than I'd expected. Not (generally) about the "gorgeous" part, but about the "classically."

[azurelunatic]

Melissa Auf der Maur -- the lighting here makes her hair look darker than it actually is, as she is apparently a redhead, which is something that I did not at all pick up from that music video until I went in search of photos of the "gorgeous brunette".

[alchemise]

I always think of Ralph Fiennes as classically gorgeous.