thefourthvine | Slashy Nominations 128: Small Fandoms Well Pursued

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Slashy Nominations 128: Small Fandoms Well Pursued

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this. But, see, recently

liviapenn reminded me that I have been remiss in my duties as a fan. Specifically, I have neglected my Fannish Heritage. (Capitals inserted to make the topic seem more important. Also, I figure this way I'm enhancing the chances that soon a course called that will be offered for credit at universities. Ideally, I'm thinking a history elective. Ooo, and there should definitely be extra credit for porn.)

I do not want to be a Fannish Heritage Neglector. There would likely be shame involved.

So if anyone feels like making me a sampler for any of the following fandoms, with a focus on slashy moments and other topics of fannish interest, well, you would be doing me (and Our Heritage!) a great service.

The Sentinel
Star Trek: the Original Series (But I've already seen The Trouble with Tribbles. Um. Almost half of it, anyway.)
Highlander (Ideally, with a focus on Methos, a character Best Beloved seems to find peculiarly appealing, although said appealingness took a slight hit tonight, when we found out his name is pronounced with a long E.)

You wouldn't have to send me all the episodes! Not even close. I'm just asking for, you know, a highlights reel. Like, if SGA appeared on that list, you'd only need to send me Sanctuary, The Defiant One, The Brotherhood, and Trinity, although of course if you felt like throwing in, for example, Rising or Underground or The Storm, that would be excellent, too. And if you wanted to explain why these were the critical episodes/scenes/vids/transcripts/insane theories posted on whatever fans used before they had the internet, well, I would love you forever and ever, and also, um. Be very grateful.

Sorry, haven't really got anything else to offer, unless you want a highlights reel for SGA, in which case I'd be happy to trade. (I doubt it, though. I think every fan in the universe has already been pimped into that fandom at least twice, and I suspect non-fans are starting to be sucked into the SGA Galactic Black Hole because of the sheer size of its Schwarzschild radius, and oh my god, now I have to write a story in which Rodney compliments John on the size of his Schwarzschild radius. It would make me giggle! And only me, probably, which is why I'm going to have to be the one to write it.) DVDs would be ideal, but we also have the technology to play VHS tapes, because we are very retro. Volunteers? Anyone? I stand ready to be educated.

And am I missing anything? If I know the canonical whys and wherefores of Kirk/Spock (is there canonical support for Kirk/Spock?), Jim/Blair, and Duncan/Methos, have I pretty much got my Fannish Heritage down? Will I be able to hold my head up if I am ever in a large gathering of fans? Will I be able to pass the undergraduate course? Keep in mind that I've already seen some of due South, SGA, SN, BtVS, and AtS. (And no one is allowed to make fun of me for being immensely proud of that. TV was an unknown country to me before fandom, people. I'm new there.)

And now that I've revealed my shameful lack of Fannish Heritage, let's move on to the service portion of this evening's programming, shall we? I'm requesting information on large fandoms, so it seems only right that I should be recommending from small ones.

Best FF That Shows Us That Travel Isn't Broadening and Love Has Nothing to Do with Never Saying You're Sorry. What Idiot Even Thought up That Whole Sorry Thing? That's the Wrongest Phrase Ever. Certain Dark Things, by

jae_w. Bourne Identity, Jason Bourne/Marie Kreutz. (You should have seen at least the first movie to read this, and although I'm going to attempt to write the summary without spoiling the second, it's going to be tough.) Wow. I love this story. For me, the heart went out of the Bourne series (the movies, I mean; the books are a whole other deal) about fifteen minutes into the second movie, but it persists in stories like this one. This is just an astonishing look at the characters, at the way they lived between the first and the second movie, and the way they are. Neither of these people are perfect - um, and we're leaving out the whole assassin deal on Jason's charge sheet - and this shows that, and also shows why they belong together. Why they work together. This is basically a brilliant series of vignettes from Life on the Road with the Former Assassin and His Current Lover, and, frankly, I wish this had been the second movie. I would've loved it. The only thing I loved about the real second one was that I got popcorn. (The first one is fun, though. Things, you know, go boom, and also there is a pretty girl. I, uh, don't have high standards for movies; basically, if I'm sitting in a darkened theater, and I'm not crying at the end, and I didn't spend large periods of the movie reading in the hallway outside (Titanic, I am looking at you; I only sat through half of you, and my ass still hasn't recovered), I'm happy.) So. You know, just read this. It's amazing, and with an ending that just kills, and...did I already say wow?

Best FF That Perfectly Encapsulates the Outsider Perspective, Which Is Nice, Because It Means We Don't Have to Look at Flocked Velvet Elvis Paintings Anymore. Although I Suspect Some of Us Will Continue to Do So Anyway. Done, by

elishavah. Boondock Saints, gen or I guess you could take it as Connor MacManus/Murphy MacManus*. But for me, this is gen; the incest won't be showing up until slightly later in this set. Yeah. (So, I bet you're really looking forward to the rest of this now, huh?) Here is another amazing character piece, and I love this because it shows what it must be like to be inside the head of a MacManus (ooo, that name) twin. Because, seriously? They speak their own language. (As well as, yes, eight others.) No, it's more than that; it's like they aren't even entirely separate entities, which is probably why they didn't ping me as slashy in the slightest when I saw the movie. (I know. I am branded with the Slasher's Shame: I saw the canon, and yet not the slash!) And I also love that this story fills in one of the many, um, plot lacunae (sounds much better than hole) in the movie, so perfectly it might as well have been in the movie. And, best of all, this has the kind of last line I dream about.

sg_workshop was talking about opening lines this week, and although I never actually managed to post my comment (tragic browser crash; wit of the ages lost, except totally not), I had one, and it prominently featured my favorite opening line of all time: "It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen." (Which, in addition to its many other charms, is brilliantly poetic and nearly erotic when put through Lost in Translation.) But the thing is, compared to last lines, first lines are easy, which is why I am totally the slave of any piece of writing that closes brilliantly. And this story's last line - okay. You have to have seen the movie. But if you have, you read this, and it doesn't seem like much, and then...it echoes, is all I'm saying. Two minutes later (probably only thirty seconds for most people), it's just amazing. (Of course, two minutes after that, if you've been on LJ a while, you want to put it on a Boondock Saints icon. But it's best to focus on the first part of the reaction, I think.)

Best FF That Is Going to Make Me Happy Every Time I Mistype "Brian" As "Brain." For the Rest of My Life. Higher Education, by Resonant,

resonant8. The Breakfast Club, John Bender/Brian Johnson, and, wow - that's a weird and probably unintended resonance in their names, isn't it? Didn't notice that until I typed them out. But all the more reason to slash these two, that's what I say. Although I don't think we need a reason beyond this story; this is the kind of FF that creates a fandom. Because, okay, my initial reaction to this concept was a hearty yawn. I did see this movie, yes, but I understood about .5% of it - all I really remember is that there were some desks. I mean, I had to dig up a plot summary to figure out who Brian and Bender were, even. So, obviously this didn't ping on my then-primitive (but now much enhanced and upgraded!) slash detector. I mean, it barely registered on my long-term memory. But I found myself actually remembering and understanding chunks of the movie as I read this story, and, even though Resonant never really describes either character, I started remembering what they looked like, how they moved, how they dressed. That's some impressive characterization, people. And the dynamic in this? Is just...perfect. I mean, absolutely, spot-on, dead-center...no. Here's the thing: the dynamic in this is the Platonic (only, you know, so not platonic, but work with me, here) ideal of a Resonant pairing. It's like she's been writing all this time because she was working up to these two. Now, I love and adore Res's work. And I rec it all the time. And I go into her stories with high expectations. And even so, I was stunned, because - well, look. Go read it, okay? You won't be sorry.

Best FF That Proves That I Am Dead to Shame. Also Possibly to Several of You, by the Time You've Finished Reading This Rec. Only Your Brother Knows the Places You've Been, by

annakovsky. Super Mario Brothers, Mario/Luigi**. Yeah, um. You read that right. I figure anyone who didn't blink several times at the fandom and pairing has already read the story, and thus is no longer with us in this particular paragraph. But I'm hoping the rest of you stayed, even though it's kind of icky to imagine sex between little mustache-intensive animated guys who jump and, um, fight...turtles and hammers? I don't know. I never played the game; I was always more the Sonic the Hedgehog kind of girl. And, of course, there's the added ick of incest. Plus, because I really think this needs mentioning twice, animated video game characters, and I don't mean the weirdly androgynous RPG hotties, because those people are clearly begging to fuck in any number of positions - we're talking about, you know. Mario. And Luigi. Can I get a hearty ewwwww? Yeah. That was my reaction. Until I actually read this gorgeous little story, which is oddly sweet and plays on the Mario Brothers back story and is just stunningly good. Really. And maybe you're thinking: "Um. Yeah, still giving that one a miss, and happy to be doing so." But, well, look. I'm sitting here seriously considering using phrases like "wistfully beautiful" and "touching and gentle" to describe incest between mustache-wearing, turtle-jumping, pixilated plumbers. In other words, I'm voluntarily sacrificing what remains of my dignity, my reputation, and my belief in my own morals to try to get you to read this story. I can't think of a heartier, firmer recommendation than that.

Best FF That Shows Us That to Everything, There Is a Season, and a Fan Fiction for Every Sexual Act Under Heaven. Pushover, by Shalott, aka

astolat. Mr. & Mrs. Smith, John Smith/Jane Smith. (And, yeah, you'll definitely need to have seen the movie to read this. But it is a marital, martial good time, so, you know, no hardship there.) I'm ending this set with - well, with more movie-based het. But there's a difference! Because this is het based on a movie that does not begin with B! And every other thing about this story is different, too, except that it is also very, very good. And, okay. I don't want to describe and discuss the sex act central to this story, because that pretty much is the story. But I will say that it has never appealed to me in the slightest particular. It doesn't even squick me. It just leaves me indifferent and sort of vaguely looking around for something else to do. Maybe a snack or a comic book or something. But this sex act is so in character for that charming couple next door, the Smiths, that I love it in this story. In fact, in a very real sense, this is the characters: their entire dynamic and the entire movie, summed up in less than 800 words, so apparently we didn't need all the bullets and mayhem after all. Just one, um, assistive device. Plus Shalott. But, hey, that's probably true of The Godfather and Casablanca and Dr. Strangelove, too, although we'd probably need a different device. At least, I hope to god we would, because if you put Ilsa and Rick in the places of Mr. and Mrs. Smith in this story, it suddenly becomes...surreal. To put it mildly. Oh my god, I'm sorry I ever even thought of it. Must go exorcise these images from my brain right now, or they will haunt me forever. Bye, y'all!

-Footnotes-

* Can someone more knowledgeable about Boondock Saints (I've seen the movie, but I don't remember this name appearing in the subtitles) confirm the spelling of the brothers' surname? This is how IMDb has it, but - these guys are Irish(-American). That's the whole point, that they're Irish. And yet this last name does not seem so Irish. So I'm confused, and I would welcome enlightenment.

** Do these guys even have last names? I honestly have no idea.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

i wouldn't get too hung up on the spelling. Mc, Mac, tomato, tomahto, you know? i mean, ewan mcgregor is scottish, isn't he, and yet witness the lack of 'a'. just to take one example that leaps to mind.

I just experienced a brief but excruciating moment in which my brain tried to combine Duncan Macleod, tomatoes, Conner and Murphy MacManus, Ewan McGregor, and your user name ("a list of things I don't normally lick in public") into one coherent entity. And then I got a fatal exception error. But I will tell you this about the conglomerate: it was juicy. And filled with Scots and Irishmen.

Um. Time for bed, I'm thinking. That comment made no sense at all.

But, yes, okay, I see your point with the McGregor. It's just - I have to look up his name every time I type it because my brain wants to make it MacGregor. (Overexposure to Peter Cottontail in my youth is probably the cause there, I'm thinking.) And now I've got the reverse problem with the Brothers [Disputed]Manus, damn them.

Perhaps I should just post a style sheet over my computer and do some extra pranayama tonight.

(Oh, and totally off-topic - do you know IPA? Or some local equivalent?)

first four grafs: hee!

fifth paragraph: [raises eyebrow] i will forbear to wave my credentials in your face, and simply say yes, i do know IPA. :-)

Not questioning your credentials! It's just that, for all I know, all the really cool linguists just laugh haughtily when IPA is mentioned. It's been years since I learned it, and even then it was in an anthropology class. It could be that proper modern linguistics is done entirely using little tick marks on the back of cocktail napkins.

So my question for you (well, actually, I have another one, but it's dependent on a) me figuring out how to put IPA into a fic and b) finishing the fic: is there an IPA font/program/applet for download or web use somewhere, like there's formula makers that you can download? Because, seriously, I've got no chance of making those marks in a drawing program; I can't even recognizably produce my own name in those things.

Huh. And now I'm wondering why Daniel Jackson doesn't keep his field journals in IPA. Wouldn't that make more sense?

best i can do for you is this: http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/bylanguage/ipachart.html (http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/bylanguage/ipachart.html) -- unless you have the capability to turn your documents into PDFs, in which event you might be interested in the font package available for free download from sil.org (http://www.sil.org).

it would indeed make sense for daniel to keep his field journals in IPA -- but with his own idiosyncratic extras, because rough transcriptions are rough, you know?, where you have to work fast and make whatever notes you can, so often there's like IPA+individual shorthand at work. (but i never watched enough SG:1 to know the condition of daniel's journals at all, really.)

I'd be more inclined to spell the name McManus, which is the normal Irish spelling. I haven't seen the film, though, so can't say how it's spelled there.

Things explode! Things are shot! Bad people are taken down with extreme prejudice and altarboy Latin! There is humor and plot holes and much action. And yet I'm strangely comfortable with it. I own it, even, and would gladly burn you a copy. Except I'm not sure it's your kind of movie, and also the Irish-American accents might make your brain explode. Still, let me know if you want one - we could solve this whole thing once and for all. By gum, unless I mean begorrah. Or hoots. Or, for all I know, barsteds. Damn. Where's a stereotypically, excessively ethnic exclamation when you need it?

(And thank you for the confirmation of the normal Irish spelling. These boys are...well, not normal by anyone's standards, but it's hard to picture them having an atypical spelling of their Irish last name.)

Hoots and begorrah, sure wouldn't I be lovin a copy of this fine pace o' cinematic drama? Thank yeh, thank yeh very much!

*tugs forelock while dancing a merry jig while quaffing a pint o plain and gnawing on a spud*

*worriedly eyes

daegaer, who has never acted like this before*

But, seriously, you'll love BDS. Explosions and twins and Latin and the best and gayest FBI guy ever. (And I do mean canonically gay.) Where shall I send it? (If you'd rather email: thefourthvine at livejournal dot com will always find me, thanks to the wiley marketing strategies of the LJ folks). And do you have an all-region player, or would you like me to convert it?

Hurray! I'll mail you. If you cold convert it, that'd be great, as my fangirl mother is very fond of films with explosions, and would probably love to see it. Alas, her quest for modern technology hasn't included a multi-region player! (If it's in any way a hassle to convert it, though, then I'll simply not tell her and watch it at home :-)

well, star trek: tos is my one true fandom, and i have the dvd sets, but no way to rip dvds or anything, so i can't send you the episodes. however, i'm capping every episode as i get to it and making slashy moment recaps (although since the discovery of sga my watching has been on hiatus). the image links through 1x04 are currently broken, but there's still about half the first season's worth of recaplets and images, 16 posts' worth, under this tag here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/cimorene111/tag/star.trek.caps). (there's a lot of canonical support for k/s, yeah--mainly of the general buddy-show kind, but also of the flirting kind.)

I mean, just for-example, there's the time in Shore Leave when Kirk has a cramp in his back and the pretty yeoman starts to rub it for him and he assumes that Spock is.

On the bridge.

And then the LOOK on his face when he realizes it's NOT Spock.

ah ha ha ha.

that scene's in my recaps. i think the exact dialogue is "push. push harder. dig it in there, mr-- ... --thank you, yeoman, that's sufficient."

I mean, I *heart* S/Mc, too, but damn is K/S just sitting there on the screen all "hello. by the way, we are having mad sex0r all over the place. ignore the skirt-chasing of the human one."

*chokes*

*giggles*

*collapses laughing*

Oh my god. You have got to be kidding. "Push harder. Dig it in there, Mr. -"?

*dies*

Totally dead serious.

You've seen Star Trek and you never told me?

*sulks*

You're the one who's always yelling at me for pimping you into new fandoms -- I had no idea you WANTED to be pimped into one! But, heh, now that I know? YOU ARE IN SO MUCH TROUBLE. *grins evilly*

See, okay. I clicked, and then I reeled away in astonishment and had to lie down for a bit, because wow. That is a lot of pictorial documentation, there.

And I'm really glad I didn't reply to this last night, because I was going to sound seriously uneducated, in the fannish sense. But...no, you know what? I still have to ask.

Isn't Spock supposed to be unemotional, except when he's in pon farr? The rest of the time, isn't he 100% emotion-free logic with extra logic on the side? Because I'm sure K/S fans have worked out many ways to get from the logic to the true forever love and hot wild monkey sex, but I'm, you know. Out of the loop. So I don't know what those ways might be.

(And there was no point in waiting to respond if I was going to ask anyway. Dammit. Eventually, I'm going to learn how not to ask questions, and the world will rejoice.)

Spock is half-human. (Don't question the biology of this. His father was Vulcan, his mom was human, they had a baby. In the Trek universe, this is possible.) He has emotions, but represses them most of the time. Except, you know, when he doesn't. At which points fangirls squee and hit the rewind button on their VCRs to watch his veneer of logic crack one more time in slow motion.

But even full Vulcans have emotions. They're just not supposed to display them publically or make decisions based on emotions rather than on logic. But the line between the two isn't always as clear as all that.

If you can get your hands on "Journey to Babel," it will go a long way toward explaining why Spock is the way he is. I actually love and adore both of Spock's parents, but Spock and his father Sarek began the long-running Star Trek tradition of dramatically dysfunctional father-son relationships.

and Sarek, in that episode, gives a lovely portrayal of rather proper Vulcan-ness, from proper social shunning (of Spock) to proper patent dislike (of the Tellarite ambassador) to proper deep love (of Amanda) to proper, well, spoiler. Sarek was 102 in this episode, so slightly older than middle-aged.

Tuvok, on Voyager, was a rather smashingly good Vulcan as well, in, I think, his mid-80s?

Nimoy's portrayal of Spock changed over the years; older Spock's face is less mobile and expressive generally, but can convey entire novels with slight changes in the mouth and eyebrows. Younger Spock was much more prone to facial expressions that border on full-on smiles, etc. The only episode with other Vulcans about his age in it is "Amok Time", the pon farr episode, and at least one of the other young men has nearly his level of facial expression in it (although Spock's wife has remarkable facial control).

My theory, which is mine, is that younger Vulcans generally have less control over their outward expressions, probably due to still-imperfect emotional control. As Spock aged, he blathered less about logic and unemotionalism, seemed reasonably comfortable discussing his feelings even with his father (going so far as to call his crewmates "friends"), but also was much more in control of his expressions and body language generally. It was an interesting progression.

Oh! Oh! You have to see "Mirror, Mirror"! Unemotional MURDEROUS Vulcans! Yay!

*flops around helplessly*

God. First fannish love. You never do recover.

(That is a brilliant icon.)

Don't question the biology of this. His father was Vulcan, his mom was human, they had a baby. In the Trek universe, this is possible.

Hey. I played AD&D in my formative years. You know, where if you have a human and an elf, and they have sex, you get a half elf, which is like a blend of the two races, and is entirely capable of breeding. So when it comes to dodgy biology, I'm on familiar, comfortable turf. (This raises the question of what happens if Spock mates. You know, with an actual female. Is he a mule, or is it more like when you crossbreed dogs?)

Also, how did he end up with a human parent and a Vulcan parent? Is this common, or is Spock weird?

But even full Vulcans have emotions. They're just not supposed to display them publically or make decisions based on emotions rather than on logic. But the line between the two isn't always as clear as all that.

*blink*

They have emotions, but it's bad manners to show them? I...huh. I didn't know that. I thought they actually didn't have emotions at all. In fact, I used to think they were cyborg-type things, or androids, or something - humanoid machines, or human machine hybrids. But I have no idea, come to think of it, where I got that concept, unless it's the name "Vulcan," which has strong associations with metal and machines.

*takes notes furiously*

*Googles Star Trek*

*dies from information overload*

NB: There is a ton of information on Star Trek on the internet, and it is all apparently written for people with doctorates in Trekology. I can't be the only person on the planet who doesn't know the difference between a Klingon and a Romulan!

(That is a brilliant icon.)

Thanks! Space jellyfish are love.

(This raises the question of what happens if Spock mates. You know, with an actual female. Is he a mule, or is it more like when you crossbreed dogs?)

AFAIK, this question has never been answered in on-screen canon. In one of the pro novels, Spock has a son (with Zarabeth, with whom he had a brief fling while in an altered mental state caused by time travel ... it's a long story.) The pro novels aren't generally considered canon, though.

Also, how did he end up with a human parent and a Vulcan parent? Is this common, or is Spock weird?

Spock is weird, or, more to the point, his parents are weird. Sarek/Amanda is actually fairly interesting to write about for a canon het pairing, because there's the eternal question of what on earth possessed them. It seems pretty clear from "Journey to Babel" and the much later Next Gen episode "Sarek" that Sarek loved Amanda in some sense, even if he wouldn't necessarily have used the word.

I thought they actually didn't have emotions at all.

Vulcans sometimes talk as though they didn't have emotions, but this is pretty clearly not actually true. There's a spiritual discipline called Kolinahr that's supposed to lead to being completely freed from emotion, but this isn't something all Vulcans practice. Most Vulcans do follow the teachings of the philosopher Surak, though, who taught that emotional control was the only way to prevent war and the destruction of society. It's a religious/cultural thing, not a biological one.

I can't be the only person on the planet who doesn't know the difference between a Klingon and a Romulan!

Hee! If you can get your hands on a few episodes to watch, it will all start to come clear.

I would be glad to answer any further questions about Trek, TOS, NG, DS9, and general universe-type issues. (I only have scanty information--or interest--in Voyager or Enterprise series). There is just SO MUCH information that might possibly be of interest or use to a fan that I don't see where to start unless you ask questions, though.

Like the Vulcan=unemotional thing.

BTW: Romulans: basically resemble Vulcans with less interes in emotional control; they are basically the same race, genetically compatible. The story is that at the time of the philosopher Surak mentioned above, two main factions of vulcan culture split in a big way, and the more militant ones were kicked off the planet (they'd had spaceflight for some generations by then). Those went off an colonized another star system and grew up to become the Romulans, who arearrogant, conquering and militaristic but not especially mean unless you get in their way (which of course the humans do, they way they go galivanting around the galaxy as if they owned it). The ones who stayed home embraced the teachings of Surak and started naming all their boy children things that started with S or ended with K, or both if they were especially pious.

The klingons are more aliens who don't get along with humans and their allies. The early makeup made them look quite a lot like Mongols in movies produced by Ted Turner--bushy eyebrows, bad goatees, 'barbarian' clothes, but basically human-looking. The later makeup gave them big ridged carapace-like foreheads ala Mr. Worf on STTNG (google for pics). In any case, another warlike, conquering culture, though made out to be more overtly hostile and mean--kinda the biker gang of space; they have a code of honor, but it's a rough one, and hard to notice when they're shooting at you.

Ask more questions!

well. canonically they *talk* a lot about how vulcans don't have emotion, but kirk, spock and mccoy have a lot of adorable teasing friendly banter about it and it's fairly clear that neither of them actually believes he is free of emotion. it's kind of a running joke (see, for instance, the end of the menagerie, kirk: "this regrettable tendency you've been showing lately towards flagrant emotionalism..." spock: "i see no reason to insult me, sir."). it's clear that spock, as a vulcan, is supposed to be immune to "going off half-cocked", or allowing his emotions to override or mask his reason (mccoy talks about this in the menagerie, too).

i think it's fairly clear from canon that vulcans are supposed to have (A) the ability to strictly compartmentalise their emotions. (B) a society where showing emotion is in extremely bad taste, so much so that they cultivate from childhood the ability to hide their emotions. (C) the cultural imperative to refrain from allowing emotions to have a say in their decision-making.

now, spock is half-human, and learning to accept his humanity is a big thing for him, presented as thoroughly desireable by the series. (he rarely mentions it, however. it's always "i am a vulcan".)

but it's clear that he does act with emotion in a number of important episodes, for instance, "the tholian web", "the devil in the dark"... um. (i have a friend with a dvd ripper. i'm trying to find out if it could be possible for me to rip and burn some for you.)

it's clear again in star trek: the motion picture, which i really don't recommend seeing since it's badly written and horribly out of character for most of the principals in my own view, but it is pretty slashy. when the enterprise is called up for an emergency mission, everyone is surprised that spock appears because he was supposed to be in retreat on Vulcan at a place called Gol where he was supposed to get mental training that would teach him to purge all emotion completely. (i personally imagine he was looking on it as a kind of vulcan finishing school, trying to probe and better understand the workings of his mind and whatnot, but many star trek writers have imagined he went as an act of desperation because the angst of being in looooove with jim was, for one reason or another, too great.) anyway, there's a rather tense conflict in which kirk, clearly hurt and angry, says something sharp about spock's choice to rid himself of emotion. later in the film spock tries to mind-meld with v'ger, the "living" (sentient) machine, and because it knows too much, it kind of shorts out his brain and he screams and loses consciousness. kirk is waiting by his bedside when he wakes up and sounds all shocked and thrilled. "spock!" allow me to quote a really fairly factually accurate passage from "full circle" by killashandra (slightly edited to focus on dialogue and stage directions)

I've just finished going through all your screencaps. Thank you. Also, my brain is about to explode. This show is filled with slash and terrible costumes and really scary hair and amusing props and a really surprising amount of eyefucking. It's like the ultimate SF TV show, basically.

Also, one tiny question. That...stone penis thing. That Kirk is holding in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" What is that? I mean, besides a stone penis. We stared at that for quite some time without being able to come up with a single theory beyond "dildo made by the Giant Stone-Fucking People of Eroticon VIII." (Well, we also formed a few theories about what the props people were on, but that's more of a side issue, really.)

now, spock is half-human, and learning to accept his humanity is a big thing for him, presented as thoroughly desireable by the series.

So does "learning to accept humanity" = "learning to accept/deal with/have/integrate emotions"? Or is it just learning to accept that he has a human side?

it's clear again in star trek: the motion picture, which i really don't recommend seeing since it's badly written and horribly out of character for most of the principals in my own view, but it is pretty slashy.

Best Beloved has informed me that in the movie Kirk voluntarily destroys the Enterprise to save Spock. Is that the out of character part? Because it is most definitely insanely slashy.

Also, I'm a total sucker for waiting-by-the-bed-in-the-infirmary scenes, and I love the long history of those in various SF shows. I had no idea ST started it. Fannish Heritage strikes again!

i have a friend with a dvd ripper. i'm trying to find out if it could be possible for me to rip and burn some for you.

That would be excellent, and I would be wildly appreciative. I have learned tons just from these comments and the screencaps (and the vids - do you know if anyone has good ST vids online besides Killa et al?), but Googling for further information proved to be a really bad idea.

It's like the ultimate SF TV show, basically.

heeeeeee. although i think that might be because it was an early and highly influential one!

We stared at that for quite some time without being able to come up with a single theory beyond "dildo made by the Giant Stone-Fucking People of Eroticon VIII."

actually, they're in a cave and it's a stalagtite that kirk has broken off from the ceiling. he needs a weapon quick, sees that, throws himself on it and hugs it tightly and makes a comical face and sort of tugs and it just miraculously comes off.

So does "learning to accept humanity" = "learning to accept/deal with/have/integrate emotions"? Or is it just learning to accept that he has a human side?

the show pretty much presents it as though accepting emotions (if not dealing with them) is an integral part of accepting one's humanity. it's one of star trek's biggest themes--humanity and its emotions versus machines, which can't have emotion. it's what makes us human and what makes us great, in the star trek universe. (there are a LOT of episodes about this.)

huh, i didn't remember that that happened in stmp, but he does it in st iii for sure--they're stuck with a scavenged klingon bird of prey throughout stiv. one of my favourite quotes is from star trek v--spock's coming to the rescue and when kirk sees that it's him he throws himself at him joyfully and i think tries to hug him. spock says repressively, "captain. please. not in front of the klingons." (generally a TERRIBLE movie, it's directed by shatner and it's so bad that in my mental canon it just didn't happen at all because there's no way to make sense of it. -- in fact my mental canon follows

ellen_fremedon's story in which the entirety of the movie is a fever dream kirk has while recovering from the flu he catches in stiv.)

i haven't seen any other good vids, but i am not much of a vid-watcher so i'm not up on it. however, i will say that k/s slash fandom on the internet is mostly dead and hasn't produced anything good in years in my opinion (there was a mass exodus around 2002 to harry potter and other fandoms). so it wouldn't be too surprising if there were no good vids.

[oops the comment wouldn't fit. here's the quote]

"And yet, with all its pure logic, Vejur is barren. Cold." His voice broke; he seemed suddenly, astonishingly to be on the brink of tears. "No mystery," Spock whispered, still as if they were utterly alone. "No beauty." His eyes drifted closed, exhaustion overtaking him. "I should have known."

"Known?" [Kirk] managed finally, though it came out in a strangled, stranger's voice. "Known what?" His hands were on the Vulcan's shoulders--how had that happened? "Spock."

"Captain." McCoy tried to make him back off.

Kirk almost snarled at him. "Bones--!" Then he was shaking the Vulcan, pleading with him, not caring that his command composure was shot to hell. "Spock, what should you have known? What should you have known?" For an instant he thought Spock had lapsed into unconsciousness or sleep, and he despaired. Please...

Dark eyes opened then, full of starlight.

"Jim," he said, as if it were an answer to every question ever asked. And his hand closed on Kirk's bicep, then slid down his arm--took his hand, touching him gently in a place no one else had ever touched, a place James Kirk hadn't been touched in almost three years. Kirk held very still. A tremor ran through him, and Spock's voice washed over him in a low, devastating, intimate ripple of certainty. "This... simple feeling... is beyond Vejur's comprehension."

The captain of the Enterprise could not speak. He smiled unsteadily because he could not help himself, and closed his other hand over Spock's, heat rising powerfully behind his eyes.

also from the movies:

+ spock dies of radiation poisoning in stii. he's separated from jim by a pane of plexi-glass at the time, and they're pressing their hands together with the glass in between, clinging to the window, when he dies.

+ after he's brought back to life in the end of stiii--that is, he's a body and his soul, but is supposed to still have no memories at all--he walks past all his own shipmates in a row with no sign of recognition, but stops at last in front of kirk and says slowly and wonderingly, "jim. your name is jim."

+ at the beginning of stiv, spock is being re-trained with most of his knowledge of vulcan, but hasn't yet got in contact again with his emotional knowledge; he has conflicts with his mother and mccoy both over this. at the climax, he shows that he is himself again by choosing to behave illogically by taking a gamble, and the happy last line is him telling his father to tell his mother "i feel fine" (the point being that a full vulcan does not understand the point of the question "how do you feel?")

Good lord. I'm dead from slashiness, and it's thirdhand.

Also, I've seen the radiation death. (In a vid.) It was just mystifying, and then Best Beloved (who groks TV in an alarming way, and has this whole pool of knowledge to which I am not privvy) explained what was happening, and suddenly it was very sad.

*blinks*

I can see I have much to learn.

(And, actually, I've seen part of a ST movie, but all I remember is whales and some joke about LDS/LSD. I don't know if that's the one Spock dies in or not.)

okay, yeah, and about the radiation death--the touching of the hands, facing, fingertip-to-fingertip, is a ritual gesture for vulcan married couples. the gesture doesn't look exactly like what k & s do in that scene--you see spock's parents doing it in "journey to babel", which laura jv mentioned up there, and it's touching with the first two fingers of the hand--because vulcans are touch telepaths, but telepaths *only* through touch. which evidently makes touching more special, and also makes it rude to invade personal space. it's also much noted in canon that spock's personal space is fairly huge, but that he and kirk touch one another a lot (they canonically *do* have a telepathic soulmate bond, only it's PLATONIC! according to roddenberry, as someone mentioned up there).
the movie you've seen part of is star trek iv, which is the one nimoy directed. it's generally the most-recommended and the most accessible to the non-tos connoisseur, but it's also light compared to the others and hm, sort of... full of references and in-jokes: really made for fans. (it's my favourite too, though. and at the end of it after spock's given into his emotions and whatnot and the whole crew is clinging to the outside of their ship which is slowly sinking into the bay below the golden gate bridge, kirk swims out of the water and puts out his hand to spock and then uses it to jerk him down into the water with him and it fades out on them laughing and splashing--that was unscripted on shatner's part but nimoy loved it so much that he left it in.)

McManus is the normal spelling here - it's normally 'Mac' for a Scottish surname, 'Mc' for an Irish surname. But it's definitely Irish; the surname of one of my near neighbours, actually.

That is a very pretty icon. For the record.

And thank you for the confirmation of the Irish-Scottish issue in that there name. I think part of my problem is that I want to spell it McManus. It just looks better that way.

*grumbles*

*wonders why the screenwriters failed to consult her*

Thank you! I am quite fond of it. As is yours; I fully agree with the sentiment behind it. :)

I think part of my problem is that I want to spell it McManus. It just looks better that way.

It definitely looks more usual to me, but there are exceptions to every rule. And these characters are Irish-American, aren't they? (Presuming this is the Big Gay Twin Movie half my flist seems to love; I've never seen it, so I can't comment one way or the other) Which generally allows for a lot more variation in spelling. I've met plenty of Irish-American Kavanaughs and Cavanaughs, for instance, but I've only ever met Irish Kavanaghs.

Of course, there was no standardised Irish spelling or language before the 1920s, so you can just use that fact to handwave away all the orthographical confusions. *g*

*wonders why the screenwriters failed to consult her*

An all too common failing, I'm afraid. Don't these people realise that if they hired fans, instances of plot holes, canonical blunders and logical inconsistencies would be at least halved? Because we are a nitpicky people, oh yes. ;)

we found out his name is pronounced with a long E

I read this as, 'his name is preceded by a long E'. Which then translated in my head to "EeeeeeeeeMethos!!" Which is a pretty understandable reaction.

(And yes, my brain obviously alters prepositions where it sees fit.)

This is a worthy venture. Hopefully it'll reward you with new enthusiasms.

EeeeeeeeeMethos

Which my brain instantly transformed into EmoMethos, or Emothos for short.

Which, I dunno. Is he emo? See, this is exactly why I need to embark on the Fannish Heritage Project! How can I not know if Methos is emo? Or woobie? He could be butch, for all I know!

*is ashamed*

liviapenn is clearly wise beyond her years. This Fannish Heritage thing is important. I see this now.

Methos is admirably non-emo, really, except in the hands of badfic writers. Duncan has his share of emo moments, as befit the Hero With A Tragic Destiny (see under: There Can Be Only One), but Methos largely provides snark and practicality. He's a fannish darling because he's so incredibly experienced (he's the oldest living Immortal) and because he's obviously completely amoral and has some fascinating skeletons in his closet (the Horsemen of the Apocalypse; Lord Byron; etc)

...You probably don't really need to watch the show in order to get a decent sense for who he is, which is most likely a relief as the show requires a very high tolerance for plot holes and low-budget effects.*

killabeez hosts a lot of HL vids on her website (http://seacouver.slashcity.net/vidland/vids.html), and just watching some of those might help you just fine. (Bonus helping points for me: there are also Star Trek vids on there, too.**)
"Opportunities" is an adorable little vid that introduces several characters in a rather, um, focused way -- Duncan's the one with the hair, Methos is the one with the nose, and Amanda is the one with the breasts.
"Mack the Knife" is mostly about Duncan, but it's fun, and Methos does make some slashy cameos.
"And As For You" probably takes a little canon knowledge -- it's based in two episodes in season 5 where Methos's past comes back to cause trouble for everyone -- but it works its theme quite well when you know what's going on.
"Don't Mind Me" gives you a lot of good slashy moments between them, including Methos and Duncan being domestic, having fights, and that one classic shot where Methos makes the orgasm face with Duncan's sword at his throat.
...There are bunches more on there that I haven't seen yet, quite a few of which probably would also help with Understanding The Methos Thing. But I think those will do for now. ^^

* In case you're feeling up to the challenge: Methos doesn't show up until late in season 3, and is then a recurring minor character after that -- I'm told that there's a lot of good stuff with him in season 4, which I've never bothered to watch. There are a few crucial Methos episodes in season 5, too, most notably (for the broken writers like me) "Revelations 6:8" and "Comes a Horseman," the two parts of a story about Methos's long-gone past. ...And he probably stays important after that, too, but again, I never bothered. The fandom didn't quite hook me hard enough.

** And other things! I recommend the comic vid "My Baby's in Love with Eddie Vedder," which could be nicely summarized as "Goddamnit, Wolverine, knock that off!"

Oh my god yes. By which I mean, I've seen the vids.

I have a tragic unrequited love for Killa. (And how does she repay me? By making me seriously consider Kirk/Spock. Because after watching those vids - well, I mean, I've seen what she can do in terms of out-of-context-ness in "Closer," but still, she makes them look oh my god so in love.)

Killa's vids are where Best Beloved, who watches vids with me (And displays highly irritating TV-fu in the process. We were watching this SV vid, and the Scene with the Car Crash, the Mouth-to-Mouth, and the Look on Lex's Face Like He Just Got Religion came on, and BB said to me, "Oh, I bet that's how they met." With no prior canon knowledge or anything. I wish I could do that.), learned of the strange appeal of Mr. Long E himself.

In addition to the vids you mentioned, every one of which is amazing - "Opportunities," all by itself, made us watch HL vids, because it was just so much fun, and it also gave me a pathetic love for Amanda - I'm also a big fan of "You Might Think," "The Ubiquitous Mr. Lovegrove," and "Prince Charming Comes." (And "History Repeating" and "Where in the World Is Carmen Sandiego?" But that's my whole unfortunate Amanda thing coming to light.)

And I must just say: YAY on the non-emo Methos thing. I much prefer the pragmatic, experienced, snarky types. When I see people being angsty in the rain, my general response is, "Oh my GOD. Would you just go get a TOWEL?"

I can totally vouch for not needing to see many episodes at all to get the full effect of so-not-emo Methos. Just the first one he appears in should do it. If you do get episodes, the FF button of whatever machine you're using will likely become your friend. (Duncan annoyed me on sight, and it only went downhill when he opened his mouth. The fact that Methos sometimes seems to live simply to roll his eyes at Duncan is a fun bonus.)

And thanks for the rec, but sorry for the headache. It wasn't the reason I wrote it the way I did, but coming from their POVs certainly saved me from stressing even a little about the spelling of their surname.

It's worth noting that a lot of people think Duncan is a jerk to Methos, and for the most part, I don't see it. Duncan is actually markedly more tolerant of parts of Methos's past/personality at certain points than he is in general, and it's hard to know that without seeing big chunks of the rest of the series.

Though - compare and contrast his treatment of Ingrid in The Valkyrie with his treatment of Methos in the Horsemen arc and afterwards. I think you'll see what I mean.

Duncan has the moral fiber of fifty men, and Methos has the morals of your average hyena. This does, upon occasion, cause friction. Lots of it. And also deliciousness. :)

To run off on a tangent, I've just read Deep Survival, which is a book about the psychology of the quick and the dead - who survives in extreme situations, and why, and how. And it's interesting to apply it to Methos, because one of the things that turns out to be very important in survival is the ability to stay connected to reality and to change your plans quickly as reality changes. I'm kind of astonished at how right the writers got that part of Methos's personality, sometimes: he is always perfectly clear on reality. Some people think he's really manipulative, and I think he's less manipulative than just an opportunist - survivors, it turns out, are opportunists of the highest order.

OK, enough rambling at you. :)

STOP IT. You are making me love Methos. This is WRONG.

*adds Deep Survival to her reading list*

Duncan has the moral fiber of fifty men

Wow. How do you survive umpty-snout years of immortality and still have moral fiber left? I'm reluctantly impressed with Duncan. (Reluctantly because, in vids, he comes off as, well, kind of a dork. And not the good kind of dork, a la SGA, either.)

well, your moral fiber ends up a bit different than the moral fiber of regular folks.

for example, in the crapass movie "Highlander:Endgame", Methos and Joe are breaking Duncan out, and in the car afterwards, Methos says that he got Duncan's sword (which had been nicked by the guys holding him) back, and hands it to him.

Duncan: There's blood on it!
Methos: I didn't say it was easy!

And that's just cool with Duncan. Also, one of his best friends is a thief, and one...well, he's hard to describe, but he's a shady fellow, and then there was the multi-state, three-immortal crime spree where Duncan was the "dig up the revived bodies of the thieves" guy.

But he's got his code, and he sticks to it.

(This is probably just because I spent my evening clicking through the archives of Savage Love, but I totally guessed the mysterious sex act of Mr. and Mrs. Smith story.)

(Love your icon, by the by.)

Yay Savage Love! It has been way too long since I read that column, but love it. I even have the book. (And may I just say - if you don't have it, get it NOW NOW NOW. If for no other reason than this one particular letter and response that still makes me choke with laughter at inappropriate times, and which nearly killed me the first time I read it. I swear I didn't breathe in for about fifteen minutes, I was laughing so hard.)

And, yeah, the sex act is totally guessable. But I didn't want to come right out and say it, because - well, if there's a spoiler for that story, that would be it. Because, you know, that's the whole plot.

And now I'm going to have to go re-read it. I love that story. It's the whole movie! In five minutes! With added sex!

If I know the canonical whys and wherefores of Kirk/Spock (is there canonical support for Kirk/Spock?)

Heh. There is plenty of canonical support for the fact that they love each other and would do absolutely anything for each other. The writers intend for this to be a love that is pure as the driven snow, but it's easy to take it otherwise. (So much so that Gene Roddenbery included a footnote in the novelization of the first movie saying "Kirk and Spock aren't lovers, really! See, Spock is using a Vulcan word in this scene to describe Kirk that can mean lover, but in this case it just means that they share a soul bond because they are like brothers, or something." Slash fandom being what it is, what K/S slashers took away from that was "ooh, shiny, now I know how to say 'soulmate' in Vulcan.")

Man, now I'm all nostalgic about K/S -- it was my very first slash fandom, back in the day.

Absolutely. That's why when I finally met Roddenberry, I had him sign my copy of that novel. And I loved that he at least acknowledged slash fandom without thumbing his nose at it.

(and I loved that the footnote was Kirk's, and he made a joke out of it instead of really saying they hadn't been lovers)

The writers intend for this to be a love that is pure as the driven snow, but it's easy to take it otherwise.

Oh, they'll take the high road and I'll take the low road and I'll get to hot sex long before they will.

So much so that Gene Roddenbery included a footnote in the novelization of the first movie saying "Kirk and Spock aren't lovers, really! See, Spock is using a Vulcan word in this scene to describe Kirk that can mean lover, but in this case it just means that they share a soul bond because they are like brothers, or something."

*collapses laughing*

And he thought that would discourage slash fans? I can see that this was back when fandom was young and creators were incredibly naive. I mean, he might as well have included an Appendix: ATTENTION, SLASH FANS: Kirk and Spock are SO TOTALLY DOING IT. Yes, theirs is the forever love, and I thought I'd best admit it here. Also? They are having hot kinky Vulcan*-on-human sex every night. Yup. Totally. Continue with the story-writing, please, because it is all so true. Love ya lots! Signed, Gene.

Pure as the driven snow. Hee!

* It feels weird to capitalize Vulcan and not human. How did writers from the fandom handle that, I wonder?

And he thought that would discourage slash fans? I can see that this was back when fandom was young and creators were incredibly naive.

It wasn't very discouraging, no. The footnote explains the Vulcan term and why the "rumor" has therefore arisen that Kirk and Spock were lovers, and lets Kirk answer this in his own words. As I recall, all Kirk basically says is "I think girls are great."

It feels weird to capitalize Vulcan and not human. How did writers from the fandom handle that, I wonder?

Variously; sometimes "Human" gets capitalized, or since "Vulcan" is also the name of the Vulcans' home planet, sometimes the solution is to say it's really parallel to "Terran," not to "human." But all the names of other species get capitalized in Star Trek canon, and "human" generally doesn't. You get used to it.

Actually what Kirk says is more like, "D'you really think that a guy as horny as me would hook up with someone who can only be convinced to do the Wild Money Sex once per seven years?"

Which makes a loophole big enough to fly a starship through, since it's not that Vulcan's don't have sex except when in Pon Farr, it's that they don't have the psychobiological fuck-or-fight imperative except then. I'm sure if they had a logical reason to screw other times they'd go ahead and do so.

From my dark and distant days of Nintendo addiction I recall that the last name of the Mario Bros. is, uh, Mario. Making them Mario Mario and Luigi Mario. But I could be wrong, it's been a very long time.

*dies and is dead*

His name is MARIO MARIO?

Oh my god. Those were dark times for video games, weren't they? (Although, I'm sorry, is there anything slashier than Luigi using his brother's first name as his last? No, thank you, I thought not.)

But thank you. I totally can't stand to modify the entry - Mario Mario, OH MY GOD - but I'm very happy to know this. (I'm assuming there won't be any more stories in this fandom, so I won't have to face the question of what to do with my dread knowledge the next time I rec. Hmmm. Although, if there are, I'd probably put in Mario Mario/Luigi Mario. I have no shame.)

Mario Mario.

Hee.

Glad to be of service :)

Oh my God, your icon rocks.

hee, thanks! I'm trying to decide now if I really need an icon with a puddlejumper and "move zig!" so I hvae the whole set *g*

And am I missing anything? If I know the canonical whys and wherefores of Kirk/Spock (is there canonical support for Kirk/Spock?), Jim/Blair, and Duncan/Methos, have I pretty much got my Fannish Heritage down?

*looks shocked!* Er, how long have you--uh? wow. Right. Okay. No, there's more--I mean, at a minimum, I think, you need SH and Pros, just in terms of a core curriculum, you understand. Then there are your major pairings, and your electives...

It is not my fault! I blame my parents, who totally failed in their obligation to make me watch television. I mean, they sent me off to college without any TV knowledge whatsoever. (And if you think that didn't lead to humiliation, you are so wrong. Let's talk about the time that my tablemates tried to explain "Hee Haw" to me, shall we? I thought they were making it up as a highly humorous joke - which I still maintain is the only reasonable reaction - and I went up to several entirely random strangers to ask if they'd ever heard of "Hee Haw." We will draw a veil over the reactions I got, okay?)

But! I insist on the right to claim Best Beloved's TV knowledge as my own, mostly because if I can't I will never catch up OMG. And BB has seen a lot of Starsky and Hutch. (And summarizes it thusly: "Hugging and crying. Oh, and they were cops." Sensitive types, I'm guessing.)

Neither of us has seen Pros, I'm sorry to report. But I'm kind of afraid of it. They look very grim in the vids, and one of them has terrifying hair.

Hmmm. Major pairings, you say? And electives? Tell me more! I'm taking notes. (Like, I just discovered ST:TOS has pairings besides Kirk/Spock. Oh, those whacky fangirls.)

Can't blame you on the Hee Haw disbelief. I had trouble believing it, and I'd seen Green Acres.

SH is distinguished by the presence of a red-and-white striped Torino, cop cliches of all descriptions combined with Southern California 70s cliches of all descriptions. Thus the hugging and crying, and some Really Bad Clothes.

Professionals was sometimes described as the "British Starsky and Hutch," although the similarities were of genre, not tone or character. American fans who could score tapes of it were easily converted by the style. For instance, S&H might bawl in maudlin tones, "I'd die for you, Man!" after a dicey shoot-out; but Bodie and Doyle would assess a lethal situation with a couple of glances and one of them might say, conversationally, "Getcher arse back to HQ while I hold 'em off." There followed several thousand fan stories, an impressive number when they had to be typed on actual paper and sent to other fans by snail mail, in which Bodie and Doyle engaged in every slash cliche then known to fandom and invented a bunch of new ones. It's definitely not to be missed in a history of fannish slash. Look not at the hair but at the actors' posterior parts, of which the camera gives an occasional luscious frame, and much will be explained even if the big guns and British dialogue don't do it for you.

Along with Classic Trek and S&H, MUNCLE might be considered seminal in a study of early slash: Two guys, life-and-death action, tongue-in-cheek dialogue, picturesque torture, gadgets, and in the mid-60s, no particular screen taboo against showing two guys sharing a hotel room or, in a pinch, a toothbrush. (There's a convoluted timeline of its effect in fandom, but it pointed the way for many.)

'Canonical' BDS spelling is MacManus, as enshrined by the script, the imdb.com listings and the credits on at least two of the four DVD versions. MacManus and McManus actually show up in both Scotland and Ireland--it's a matter of which one's more prevalent in a country. But most of us serious BDS people figure Troy Duffy (the director) was just being an idiot and never corrected it.

why, yes, i did do serious research on this topic. i even have a post. and i take this way too seriously:P

Yay! Can you link me to the post? (Can't believe I missed it. I've been worrying about that forever.)

*comes down firmly in the "Troy Duffy was being an idiot" camp*

Here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/guede_mazaka/404944.html). I agonized forever about how to spell it in my own fics, and now I mostly just try to avoid using their last name. From what I hear, Troy Duffy can be an ass, so probably no one called him on it (there's a feature-length documentary of the making of BDS, which I understand is really good though I haven't seen it myself; review (http://www.flickfilosopher.com/flickfilos/archive/2004/overnightboondock.shtml) is here if you want an idea of what it's about).

I'm pretty sure that Mario's last name is Mario. Mario Mario and Luigi Mario. Sir Pun and I were just talking about this the other day, and now I'm sitting here cracking up so I have to explain to him that this topic has come up once again.

Of the Fannish Herritage, I think Starsky and Hutch is another one that all the true BOFQs know and love. Oh, and I have been pimped into Wiseguy which is so utterly fantasticly slashy that you really should see it for yourself.

I don't know what BOFQ stands for, either, although I'm guessing the 'Q' means 'Queer.'

*is ashamed and willing to make amends*

I have to claim my Best Beloved's TV knowledge as my own, because I had a tragic childhood. (By which I mean that my parents failed in their duty to make me watch TV. I don't know what they were thinking; TV is way more important, culturally speaking, than breathing, even.) And Best Beloved has an obscure fondness for Wiseguy, actually, which is mysterious to me. (Those...eyebrows. And also, someone dies. This scares me.) Plus, see my comment to Ces, above, for BB's description of S&H, which I'm hoping covered the territory fairly completely.

I don't actually have to watch any S&H, do I?

*worries*

*tentatively adds S&H to List of Fannish Heritage Requirements, as two people have now mentioned it*

*wonders if she knows anyone who has S&H on DVD*

Well, I'm certainly not going to make you watch S&H. That'd be rather hypocritical of me as I have no intention of watching it. But it seems like it's one of those shows that is important to Fannish History, if that's what you're after. Bitter Old Fic Queen is what BOFQ stands for. Many aspire to but, few attain this exalted status.

Do you have a DVD player? You do, right? Because the very kind and lovely and talented

nestra sent me her ENTIRE RUN of Sentinel on video, and I have been DYING for a chance to try out my new VCR/DVD burner, and this seems like the perfect opportunity. I can burn them to DVD for you and send the DVDs to you and then you can watch The Sentinel and groan and write at its badness just like the rest of us, and marvel about how they are SO DOING IT just like the rest of us. Yes?

OH MY GOD YES YES YES!

*dances*

HEE!

Okay. Yes. I will do that for you. Because I luff you. *luffs* Now I really do have to figure out how to work that thing...

Regarding last names -- Ireland and Scotland have quite a lot of bleed-through, really. I've got Irish for sure, but there's a very probable Scotland connection as well (both on my dad's side -- my mom is English with a hint of Welsh).

Seriously, it wouldn't be the most common spelling for Ireland, but it wouldn't be unheard of. Someone else brought up the case of Ewan McGregor (and I had a devil of a time trying to convince a friend of mine of the right way to say 'Ewan' -- eventually, I had to track down a clip of him saying his own name to prove that I was right), who is very much a Scot, indeed, despite the lack of a 'mac' in his name. Plus, the sheer variety of spellings available for any number of names is mindboggling at times.

Regarding Kirk/Spock, there are always these lines from the third movie:

Kirk: "But if there's even a chance that Spock has an eternal soul, then it's my responsibility."
Star Fleet Admiral: "Yours?"
Kirk: "As surely as if it were my very own."

Plus, the sheer variety of spellings available for any number of names is mindboggling at times.

Yes. I'm sort of disappointed with my own ancestors, actually; they apparently lacked creativity. They could've at least tossed a Y into the family name or something, but no - they had to go with the traditional spelling, guaranteeing that no one would ever be able to find their descendants via Google.

and I had a devil of a time trying to convince a friend of mine of the right way to say 'Ewan' -- eventually, I had to track down a clip of him saying his own name to prove that I was right

Now I'm really, really afraid that I've been saying it wrong this whole time. How, um, does he say it?

*worries*

Regarding Kirk/Spock, there are always these lines from the third movie

Oh my god the slashiness. I wrote that pairing off as all pointy ears and nonsense, but I see now that I was wrong to do so. So very wrong. But, hey, I'm repenting. (Now, actually, I'm sort of worried that if I ever do see the canon, it won't be as slashy as it seems in the transcripts and quotes and vids. Because part of me thinks that nothing could be as slashy as, for example, the massage scene.)

Now I'm really, really afraid that I've been saying it wrong this whole time. How, um, does he say it?

*worries*

She was mostly just being stubborn and insisting that it was pronounced the same as 'Ian', but there's no 'ee' sound at all, and it's basically just yoo-in.

Oh my god the slashiness. I wrote that pairing off as all pointy ears and nonsense, but I see now that I was wrong to do so. So very wrong. But, hey, I'm repenting. (Now, actually, I'm sort of worried that if I ever do see the canon, it won't be as slashy as it seems in the transcripts and quotes and vids. Because part of me thinks that nothing could be as slashy as, for example, the massage scene.)

Oh, it is. It really is that slashy. There is a reason that K/S was the Birth of Slash (as we know it).

Borrowing computer access, so only a few links. The best sources you could ever want for canon support for Kirk/Spock can be found neatly wrapped up in Killa's superlative essay "Where No One Had Slashed Before" found at Ship Manifesto. It's also a sterling example of fannish love.
http://www.livejournal.com/community/ship_manifesto/39288.html

And once you succumb to the power of K/S, Killa also maintains a site containing some of the best recpages and linkpages around. Her primary rec focus is on ST-TOS and Highlander, but she also has a large section of other fandom recs. Killa has fantastic linkpages for ST-TOS, Highlander, Starsky & Hutch, and Jeremiah, and a misc fandom linkpage.
http://seacouver.slashcity.net/killa/linkpage.html

Yay! You're back! Sort of! I was about to email you, to make sure you had survived the computer disaster, but apparently you, um. Haven't quite recovered yet. So I will hold off on that for a bit. (New, improved email address: thefourthvine at gmail dot com. Old one still works, mostly, it's just that the server got so wonky that I decided the time had come for something slightly more reliable.) Is there anything a distant, well-meaning soul can do to help?

And thank you for the link; that ship manifesto is the best one I've ever read. I mean, seriously - I started it thinking, "Huh. Kirk/Spock. How very quaint and sweet." And I finished it with no coherent thought beyond "Kirk/Spock is LOVE EEEEEEE!" (Except for the tiny part of me that was deeply impressed: they had what was essentially sex pollen - okay, sex *virus*, but whatever - in the canon. And they got to it by episode seven. I mean, Star Trek was hardcore. They just took no prisoners at all, did they?)

Back again, briefly. I'm hoping to have access to a new (at least to me) computer by the end of the weekend, fingers crossed. It will take me considerably longer, of course, to get it organized but I should be net connected by then.

Is there anything a distant, well-meaning soul can do to help?

Thanks for the thought, but no, not really - except perhaps offerings to the patron saints of Internet deprived souls *g*.

Re the new email address, did you get the email I sent just before the computer died, with the songvid URL lists attached? I sent it Aug 22 to your other email. Just in case it didn't arrive, I'll forward it to the new email address.

I hope to get the CDs mailed early next week, but I'll email you to let you know to when to expect them.

And I'm so glad that you enjoyed Killa's ST-TOS manifesto. Do let her know, as I'm sure that she'd appreciate hearing she's made another convert. (Need to keep track of the toaster points, you know *g*.) My love of ST-TOS is over 30 years old, having been a fan of the first run, so I'm definitely biased, but ST-TOS really has been one of the most influetial of all tv media fandoms. You can see it's effects throughout a host of fandoms, not just science fiction fandoms. And while it may appear dated by today's standards, it will never lose it's place in my affections. The zine fiction is amazing, both gen and slash, in terms of art and fiction quality. There's good stuff on the net, too, but I lean towards the zines because, well, my overriding obsession is books, but also because of the art and I love having a 30 year backlist to peruse.

Mac/Mc's not really a Scottish/Irish issue at all. Two very ingrained Tirisdeach (Tiree is the Hebridean island where I have a holiday cottage) surnames are McLeod and Mackinnon, and there's no doubt that those are the correct spellings. It's just... usage.

I mean, if we get down to it, the real issue about Irish Maccys or Mccys is that 'Mac' is Scottish Gaelic for 'son of', not Irish Gaelic. Irish Gaelic for 'son of' is that ubiquitous 'O''(Disclaimer: my information is from someone who has the Scottish Gaelic. Not the Irish Gaelic. So she may be mistaken, and Irish Gaelic may also use 'Mac'.) So it's interesting that 'Mac' surnames are not hugely outnumbered in Ireland by 'O'' surnames.

...I could go off on even more of a tangent, about the interesting fact that 'Nic' is the female version of 'Mac', but instead I shall just... stop. Um. Yeah.

Your friend is mistaken.
I have done a bit of historical onomastic (name origin) research, and spoken with folks who have doctoraates or equvalents in the subject.

both Irish and Scottish Gaelic use O', Mac, and Mc. The difference between Mac and Mc is only of usage--it arose before spellling was standardized, when names were writtend own phonetically by scribes who half the time did not even speak the language. The difference between O and Mac/Mc is of meaning. O'Dammit is a member of the family of Dammit, named after an illustrious ancestor named Dammit, who himself might have been Dammit O'Darn or Dammit McGosh, frex. McDammit (or Mac Dammit) is the son of Dammit himself--or a descendent of the son of Dammit, after the point at which surnames switched from being literal to inherited. Before around 1400, there were no female Mc Anythings; the equivalent for a woman was 'ingen', spelled variously, meaning "daughter of".

Clear as mud?

Ooooh, now that's interesting. :)

I only mentioned Nic because my name in the Gaelic is apparently Moireach Nic Bhroadhurst, and 'cause I like seeing all the gender-differentiated surnames in the Tirisdeach phonebook. I dunno, I think it's cool.

So how come you meet no O'Dammit's in Scotland?

Whoops, posted before finishing - only thing I'm a bit dodgy about is modern Scottish Gaelic using 'O''. It easily may have done in the past. But my wonderful informant's first language is the Gaelic, and she was pretty clear about 'Mac/Mc' being Scottish 'O'' being Irish. By which I mean: she easily could have been mistaken about whether the Irish use 'Mac/Mc' or not. I'm not so convinced she could be mistaken about whether the Scots use 'O''.

Could be regional. *shrugs* But I didn't think Hebridean Gaelic was particularly differentiated from mainland Gaelic.

I'm amazed that I enjoyed the Mario slash. And yet, I so did.

Right there with you. My own reaction was very hard to describe. There was squee, and there was also a sort of a tharn kind of thing.

Later, I thought, oh my god it's MARIO BROTHERS. They had mustaches! And then there was shame.

But at first, I was just stunned and happy, like someone had hit me in the mouth with a really good key lime pie.

Yayyyyy, small fandoms! Love, love, love them.
Sorry I can't help you with your heritage research, but I've never really watched any of them either.
Due South, SGA, Sentinel, Sports Night...I've read thousands of pages of FF and probably seen a total of 45 minutes of the shows put together.
Hell with the fannish duty, that's what I say.

Small fandoms are love. I totally want that color bar, because - they are. Seriously, some of the best fic I have ever read was in a fandom so tiny it was pretty much just the author in there by herself, with a small group of adoring readers hanging around the edges. No, no - small fandoms are the purest love. I mean, you know it has to be True Wuv when you're squeeing by yourself.

Due South, SGA, Sentinel, Sports Night...I've read thousands of pages of FF and probably seen a total of 45 minutes of the shows put together.
Hell with the fannish duty, that's what I say.

Oh, child, child, once I was like you. I danced and sang all day and read porn all night, and I knew not of TV or these things those wise in the ways of the world called shows. But time passed. I put away childish things, and I assumed the mantle of Fannish Heritage, as was right and proper. (All this took, like, six months. But that's about two decades in Fandom Time.) I listened to the wisdom of my elders, and I learned.

Mostly what I learned is: the third season of dS is, in places, as slashy as any fic, and is for the most part well worth seeing. And the first season of Sports Night is wonderful. Seriously. Very much worth seeing.

Just in case you, you know. Ever get bored with the frolicking and porn.

(But I still think it's best to read the fic first. TV makes *much* more sense that way. Also, the ideal situation is if you have a loved one who will do your TV watching for you, and then later show you the best bits, with annotations.)

Speaking of small fandoms, do you know what ever happened to that "Milk and Orchids" site with the Nero Wolfe slash? All I can get are the cached copies on Google.
There's actually a Yahoo! Groups, um, group called that as well, but when I asked nicely to join I was DENIED.

There is a really, really excellent Archie/Saul Panzer story on that yuletide site, but it just makes me want MORE, MORE.
Archie Goodwin...
Makes me melt like butter on toast.*

My other favorite small fandom lately is Bruno and Boots from Gordon Korman's Macdonald Hall books, I don't know if you read them as a kid, but rageprufrock has some excellent stories.

And, actually, I watch all kinds of TV (well, from Netflix since I have terrible reception and no cable), just not usually the same shows I read FF from. I think Harry Potter is the only fandom where I'm really familiar with the canon. I think maybe it's because I have this idea in my head of how things are from the stories I've read, and then I go watch the show and they have all these inappropriate girlfriends and wives and things all of a sudden.
And then there are others, like LOTR, where I'm quite familiar with the canon, but don't really find anyone in it attractive enough to be interested in slashing (or whatever). I am so with you on the "hobbit-sex, EW".
I'm sorry, I'm probably the only one in the whole world who doesn't drool over Viggo Mortensen, but I just...don't. It's weird.

Or like Alias, where I find nearly everyone in it attractive, but have no interest in seeing them together.

Anyway. I do in fact have Sports Night in the queue, and will add DS if it ever comes out on DVD. (Or if it already has, Netflix doesn't have it, except for the last episode, which seems like a silly place to start.)

*Okay, so this is a lyric from the song Mostly Martha by ultra-square yet slightly naughty 50s vocal group the Crew Cuts. ("Other girls I have met, I can bed and then forget, but I know I will choose to regret...Mostly Martha!")

being the silly person that i am, i searched "narnia fanfiction slash" on google and your lj came up. so i'm friending you - hope you don't mind.

Okay, I'm curious. What else came up for "narnia fanfiction slash"?

*makes mental note to Google that*

Anyway. Hi! Welcome! No one ever has to ask about friending - I'm always thrilled - but I love it when new people say hello. Especially when they tell me how they found me. And especially especially when it turns out to be through a mutant search term. This the first time that's ever happened, actually, but I'm most definitely giggling about it.

(And, hey. If you search on terms like that, we should've met long ago. Hail, fellow small fandom slash seeker! We are few, but proud. And very happy.)

whoops, i was wrong. it's "narnia slash fnafiction," though i can't think the word order makes a difference. and you also do peter wimsey! i am so happy. have you ever read any of

copperbadge's? but the link for that one you recced wasn't working anymore. woe.

actually, no other particularly good links came up when i searched for narnia fic. but i found this (http://www.somedistantgalaxy.com/archive/)through

rarelitslash, and how can you not immediatly love an archive that calls itself "Turkish delight?" personally, i really liked the bacchus/edmund ones, by 'Ive Blossom.'

the new movie will make more new slasj available, i hope. especially with this edmund:

that was so supposed to say "slash," not "slasj." my english homework eats my brain.

Ooh, rarelitslash! That sounds like exactly what I didn't know I always wanted.
*goes off to friend it*

that's exactly the thought i had! it's a fun place.

Rarelitslash is an excellent community. Modded, I might note, by own true wombat OTP, the rare and talented

makesmewannadie. Who has a whole bunch of rarelitslash recs in her sidebar, if you're looking for that sort of thing.

Hmmm. I sense the need for additions to my own sidebar. And perhaps a recommending the recommenders post (which MMWD also does).

I suspect non-fans are starting to be sucked into the SGA Galactic Black Hole because of the sheer size of its Schwarzschild radius . . .

Word, yo. I just spent the past hour reading

rageprufrock's SGA stuff, I read the SGA stuff you rec, and I have never in my life seen an episode of that show. What is it about SGA?

Lmao @ your "SuperMario" rec explanation :D I love the movie but it's not something I'd fanfic, hehe.
~*~
(http://dear.to/luv)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Slashy Nominations 128: Small Fandoms Well Pursued

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