Poll: Separation of Canon People and FF People

[thefourthvine]

(Note: I'd like to get responses on this from as many different fan writers as possible. Anyone who pimps it will have my eternal gratitude. And if you leave a comment letting me know where you pimped it, you will get my eternal gratitude and an imaginary cookie.)

This poll is for anyone who has ever written fan fiction and in some way shared it - internet, zine, carrier pigeon, coded broadcast to Alpha Centauri, whatever.

So. If someone connected with the canon found and read your fan fiction, how would you react? For the purposes of this poll, I would like you all to imagine that we live in a world where there are no possible legal consequences. In other words, your weird new readers can hate you, but they can't take you to court or send a C&D.

[Poll #698126]

Comments

[rokeon.livejournal.com]

If having someone read a kinkfest I'd written would make me consider seppuku, but I've never actually written one, should I still check it?

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Guess I should've put a call on this in the poll intro, huh? Whoops.

My basic take is: if you'd be okay with, for example, me reading it, but you'd reach for the long and short swords if canon-associated people did, then check it. Otherwise, don't, 'cause you're reacting to the idea of writing a kinkfest, not the idea of Certain Types of Persons reading it.

[maygra.livejournal.com]

Wow. That's really interesting. I think most of objections concerns come from writers/actors/directors who vocally object to it (although most of them do so for legal reasons) and it's not so much that I think I owe them a greater degree of regard or the ability to dictate what I do, but that I don't like to give offense if I can help it.

Then again, if an actor objects to being portrayed as a homosexual, I have to wonder just how much actual regard I would have for their feelings as long as no one is accusing him/her of being something they aren't. But that's true of anything. (i.e. people who play drug addicts aren't instantly asaumed to be drug addicts so...)

hmm. Actually, I take it back. In that case, I'm not the one having a problem separating fact from fiction.

Still, I wouldn't willfully cause someone distress for my own selfish gain, so all in all, I'm perfectly happy for them all to continue to ignore me and pretend I don't exist. (you know, unless they want to actually offer me MONEY to write scripts for them [g]).

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

No kidding; the results of this are fascinating. I am trying to suppress the urge to write a paper on this, but, I mean - what it says about perceptions of ownership alone...

*manages not to write 3,000 words of (premature) analysis through sheer force of will*

Still, I wouldn't willfully cause someone distress for my own selfish gain, so all in all, I'm perfectly happy for them all to continue to ignore me and pretend I don't exist.

For me, it's not so much about the distress I might be causing (except maybe in the case of books, when it all feels a little too personal) as it is just a visceral OH GOD NO reaction. Or, as I put it when I first decided to do this poll: if I'm going to borrow toys without permission, I only want to do it behind the owner's back. It isn't even remotely rational; it's just this instinctive flinch reflex.

But the distress is an interesting point, too. I generally prefer not to upset people, but in this particular case - I don't know. I kind of have a, "If this can upset you, you deserve to be upset" response. (Not, you know, in extreme cases - I think most people would be at least a little upset reading RPF in which they were explicitly tortured, raped, and killed, for example - but just the basic ones. I mean, if someone is disturbed by the mere concept of, say, a character he played giving a blowjob, maybe it's time for him to ramp down the homophobia and learn to separate who he plays from who he is.)

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

I've stuck it in the metafandom memories for pimpage purposes. Gimme cookie!

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

*cookie*

Thank you!

*additional cookie, just because*

[shusu.livejournal.com]

For the rest, I feel more comfortable creating fan-work for anything that is a collaboration. Movies, theater, television, and animation hardly freak me out at all. But RPF and books? One person did it. One person that I might have to meet one day. It feels too much like hijacking someone's head, rather than playing with a universe.

You'd feel worse about it if the canon-connected folks were reading your:
Fanfiction that covers events following existing canon. Because that would be emotionally and in some cases legally very very awkward when canon proceeds to the next installment. Not everyone is Joss, and can play with that.

There is nothing worse than the mere thought that canon might not progress naturally because of something you did.

[marag.livejournal.com]

::nods:: I'm also more comfortable creating fanstuff for collaborative works. This is one reason I've written almost no book-related fic, and pretty much the only story I have written was in the universe created by an author who is fanfic-positive.

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

I think there'd be nothing cooler than getting an email from some actor saying, "Wow, I love what you've done with my character!"

On the other hand, I don't care at all what the writers think.

Also, I want that pony.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Interesting. So, to you, do the actors have more to do with the characters they play than the writers do - more ownership, if that isn't a word that's been beaten into the ground already? Or is it that the actors just seem like cooler people in general?

Also, I want that pony.

Don't we all.

*wistful sigh*

[boji.livejournal.com]

Hi,

The only piece of fanfic I've written I'm embarrassed about is the one piece of RPS that I wrote once upon a time. But it represents who I was when I wrote it and I like the first 2/3rds of it (pre-sex) so it stays up in my LJ along with the other fics. I'm a multi-fandom writer and think that primarily I write character pieces. I'm not embarrassed that I write fic but I wouldn't give up my moniker either.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

So, for you there's no real distinction between a canon-associated person finding your stuff and just anyone (non-fannish, I mean) finding it? That's an interesting point of view that's been emerging entirely in the comments section, as I didn't even think of it when I was assembling the poll.

[dancinguniverse.livejournal.com]

I think your last question is one of the most pertinent. If one of the writers/directors (Joss comes to mind) who didn't mind so much, who seemed to realize that his most rabid, ff-writing fans are his most devoted, and that we mean no harm, it's just something we do, I'd be thrilled. Absolutely thrilled.

If it was one of the writers/directors who doesn't understand so much, I'd feel bad, not so much out of shame, but because I think they'd pull the wrong thing from it, like I don't appreciate the work already done by him/her, or I'm just in it for the porn or something. So I think it depends, a lot, on which fandom I'm talking about at the time.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I think your last question is one of the most pertinent.

For me, it's the least pertinent, but I think more people agree with you - which is, basically, that someone who understands fans and fan works and who is positively disposed to them would be much better than someone who wasn't. And I like the point that someone who doesn't understand fans wouldn't understand the love inherent in any fan work; that's something I hadn't considered before.

Very interesting. Thank you for commenting on this.

[melannen.livejournal.com]

author-sending-feedback-for-stories-I-wrote-in-his-canon has in fact happened to me. (There are some areas on the fringes where the lawyers have not scared them away yet.) My reaction was 1 and 10 at the same time and in equal amounts, and that was not an option, so I didn't answer that question. And yes, the 1 was for 'oh my god, my story *sucks*! Oh my god, he noticed me!' and the 10 was for 'Oh my god, he noticed me! Oh my god, he liked it!'

I've written RPF (with shipping) as comment fic for people on my flist and been very happy that they were reading it, but I don't suppose that counts? But generally, I never write RPF about people (living people. Historical fandoms are wide open) unless I already know that they approve, or unless I feel like they deserve it, so my reaction to finding out they were reading it would be more like, bwahaha, the evil plan has come full circle. (The only thing I've *published* where I really worry about RPF is that I've written XF characters who are based on real-life persons (without prior permission), right down to having the same names, and said RL persons were delighted at being written into the canon, but I'm not entirely sure they'd feel the same way about showing up in fic/RP.)

[melannen.livejournal.com]

And to expand, by 'deserve it' I mean - writing Bush/Cheney they deserve it because, well, they're Bush and Cheney; explicit slash is not the *worst* thing I'd like to see happen to them. Writing Kerry/Edwards they deserve it because that entire presidential campaign *was* an extended, conscious exercise in the creation of slashy subtext; same thing with Jon Stewart/Steven Colbert. I could generally care less about actors, but for certain RPS I'd feel no shame the same way, because they are clearly playing up the subtext on purpose in their public personae; for the actors that actually have some shame, though - yeah, I'd feel kind of bad.

That's regardless of their stated positions on fanfic or homosexuality.

[notpoetry.livejournal.com]

I've actually had a canon creator find out about my fanfiction; it was a weird situation, though, because I met said creator because he's an alumn of my boarding school and I totally just happened to be a huge fan of his comic book. But we wound up talking about writing and he asked me how I got started writing, and I mumbled, "fanfiction," and he said, "Oh, seriously? TELL ME ALL ABOUT IT." And I just gave up and told him my lj name. And three days later, when I was back in New York, I got an e-mail full of feedback ... on my fanfiction. (None of it was for his comic, though, which maybe made it better. Or worse.)

Comics are weird, though, because it's one of those mediums where fan writers can (and have) become canon writers. (Prime example: Devin Grayson. Slash fanfic writer who now writes DC Comics canon.) So they know we're out here. They've practically condoned what we do. Ditto a lot of sci-fi television shows. These people know how to vanity-Google. They know we're here, they're probably reading our stuff. (They just won't admit it because of legalities. You know?)

[bloodsin.livejournal.com]

About RPS: I wouldn't like someone I was writing RPS about to read it, because it would probably freak them out, even if I'm not really writing about them. Their image, yeah, and using their name, but I don't know them personally, and there's no way you can get to know a person through interviews and stuff. So...I'd feel better about them reading my RPS if I could explain to that to them. And it, um, made sense.

[miss-porcupine.livejournal.com]

In my limited experience, I've found canon creators to be a little... traumatized by the amount of related material on the internet. Usually a little thin-skinned after having first waded through tons of criticism, which sometimes makes them a little giddy when someone is actually happy with their stuff.

In terms of fanfic, for which I've never encountered a canon provider... Is this where I sigh a bit of relief about writing mostly genfic? :)

[rokeon.livejournal.com]

*g* Definitely there with you on writing gen.

[out-there.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised how deeply ingrained the C&D response is in my mind. I had to consciously stop and try to place myself somewhere where writing sexually explicit stories about the main characters being gay wouldn't automatically lead to either personal legal problems or general show-writer reactions (you know what I mean. Two slashy characters go from being best friends in one season to never appearing on the same shot in the next season?). I'm still not sure I managed it.

But, yeah, some actors/writers are very cool people and take fanfiction in the right light: proof that we adore what they do, that we invest a lot of our time and energy into loving what they've created and we show this by claiming part of it, by contributing our own ideas of the characters and possible stories.

Others are not.

And the problem is that if you get noticed, you can never be sure of the reaction. You can't tell if it'll be "huh, odd, but kinda flattering" or "Cease and desist now, young lady" (or even "OMG, you people are going to hell"). The strong likelihood that it'll be one of the latter two reactions makes me too nervous to be completely thrilled with the idea of TPTB finding my stories.

[without-me.livejournal.com]

Many years ago, I wrote a fanfic specifically to give to an actor. It was a short backstory for the character he played, and contained no hint of sex. I'd be lying if I didn't say I nearly died of joy when he talked (appreciatively) about that story at subsequent public appearances. On the other hand, the last thing I want is for any actor, author, etc. to read graphic fanfic and be hurt or offended by it. Why would I want to hurt or offend the people who create the personas I love?

[cofax7]

I've had a producer/creator read some of my stuff. Once he even read (and commented on!) slash I wrote for another show. That was... weird. But he's very fannish himself, and friendly, and it was mostly cool. Certainly not enough to scare me away, even though he's admitted to some ambivalence about fanfiction.

However as I've written more slash, and even some outright porn, I'm getting more uncomfortable with the thought of the actors reading anything I produce. I'd really rather they didn't.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Actors are a whole new quantum of bad for me. I think it's because writers *know* we swap bits back and forth. Actually, I can't rationalize it. I'm just way more freaked about any of the actors reading my stuff than the writers. And no, I don't RPF.

[babyofthegroup.livejournal.com]

I actually don't care one way or the other -- and I wonder if that has to do with me starting in RPS. I marked the middle for both (I used 6 for writers and 5 for actors arbitrarily), but I really couldn't care less what they think. At the same time, I couldn't care less about a C&D letter, either -- getting C&D'ed is not going to stop me from writing about what I write about. I'll certainly eyeroll a bit, and my attitude toward the person might get a bit strained, but stopping? Not gonna happen.

I know some people freak out at even the *mention* of C&D, and I just don't get that. It probably helps that this isn't my real name.

[lorem_ipsum]

I'm not quite sure which question this goes under, but I'd also feel better if the stories in question had enough warnings on them. Some of the stuff I've posted only-on-LJ goes into kink territory without any warning.

OTOH, if there are warnings, and the canon person chooses to read anyway, *shrug*.

Another thing you missed: I feel very very bad about the idea of relatives-and-friends of canon people stumbling across this stuff.

[sheron]

for the record, i said i'd feel worse and checked all those things, but that doesn't mean i ever wrote them, but if I had, i'd feel pretty badly about a cannon person reading those (like character bashing, for example)

[wednesdayschild.livejournal.com]

Okay, well, in my 'canon people read your fic' fantasy, I assumed that they enjoyed it. (I mean, in this alternate reality they're reading my fic, so it's not SO big a stretch to imagine they like it, right? Maybe?)

I would be totally, 100% delighted if any 'canon person' read and enjoyed my non-RPF fic. I'd be pretty mortified if they didn't like it, though, which was not what I assumed for the purposes of the poll.

I would be mortified, however, if someone found RPF I'd written about them, but that's partly because I'm not totally comfortable with RPF in the first place. It can be weird enough when friends or family intimate things about what you do in your spare time/who you do in your spare time; I imagine that it might be weirder for perfect strangers to do the same.

[tangleofthorns.livejournal.com]

For writers reading fanfic of their work--I'm pretty sure this has actually happened to me. Actually 100 percent sure in one case, although that was parody, and 90 percent sure in the case of serious stuff. And I felt mostly good about it--a little bit weird, but mostly good, because I was comfortable with what I'd done.

But actors reading stuff that's shippy freaks me out more, because I know they'll be thinking of playing it out, and as for RPF...

Oh, man, I am so sure I'd get sued within an inch of my life.

[elfiepike.livejournal.com]

i'd feel worse if the canon-folks in question read my RPF car crash story. because, you know, the canon folks being real people, and the story about the gory detail involving blood and brains--it would make me a little uncomfortable. i'd probably giggle hysterically.

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

I find I feel much worse at the thought of actors (as opposed to writers, directors, etc.) reading my fanfic, especially anything sexually explicit. Not so much because of the slash (anybody who's offended at the thought of their character being considered possibly gay/bi is not someone whose opinion I care about) but at the element of objectification. If we write smut about characters played by actors, we are, on some level, using the actors' bodies for our sexual fantasies. And I would assume most actors would be a little creeped out by that--most people don't want to hear strangers' porny fantasy about them.

[spubba.livejournal.com]

Thank you for being able to say what I can't. Having a MARRIED actor read my fanfic in which I jokingly yet explicitly detailed exactly what I'd like to do to him, really affected my willingness to write such jokes in the future. Because I don't want to creep people out like that, even if the story in question was a satire.

[rageprufrock.livejournal.com]

The television thing has happened (once) and I did not die of mortification as I thought I would--mostly because of the little ticky box that said the person in quesion knew about and was okay with fanfiction.

On the other hand, I would die of mortification incredibly quickly should any of the actors read it become horrified by it; for some reason, I don't particularly seem to care that Rowling has expressed dislike of HP slash.

[miriam-heddy.livejournal.com]

I realized that, in the absence of the threat of legal action, and given that you didn't require that I meet with said actor/writer/whatnot and hear what they thought of it, I really don't care one way or another if they read it, except that I'd prefer that, if they did read it, they read my best work, and cleanly edited.

I'm fairly proud of my skills as a writer, though I don't expect any of TPTB to particularly care about or notice that if they encountered my writing. But I figure that, if they do see slash, it might as well be good, and well-written.

But beyond that? If they can't take legal action, TPTB are just people, and not even the people I write for, or to, so....

My only possible concern might be that, having read what I've written, they might change the way that they're writing (to, say, try to eliminate all possible fun on my part). And yet... I've seen TPTB do that without having seen my work (at least I don't think I was responsible for Garak and Bashir no longer having screen time together). And I'm sure I wasn't responsible for The Sentinel going off the air, so....

Yeah. I really don't care one way or another. Now, if you'd required that I watch them read my slash and then sit with them for an hour afterwards, I might well have answered differently. *g*

[eleventh-guard.livejournal.com]

This is pretty much is how I feel about it too... I'm not all that confident about my skills, but I do a few things well, and I don't post stuff that's chock-full of typographical errors and spelling mistakes. I have a few pieces I'm prouder of than others and would prefer that if George Lucas or whoever is going to read my work, they'd read the better stories. But even if they read the worst of my (few) adult fics, as long as we're not talking legal consequences, it's fine with me.

No matter what of mine they read, there is plenty that's worse, and plenty that's harder. I try to keep it simple and limit kinks in a short fic to 2, 3 at the most.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

I would very much rather that no mundanes read any of anybody's slash; I like living in a subculture and shudder every time another article is published.

[that_mireille]

To be honest, this is about how I feel too. That's why I picked the "it would be okay if they write fanfic themselves" option--because then they'll *get* it. They may think it's crap, they may be kind of freaked out, but they'll get *why* I did it.

Otherwise, I honestly just don't want them to read it.

[delurker.livejournal.com]

Ooh, cookies (http://delurker.livejournal.com/42318.html) and eternal gratitude! (http://community.livejournal.com/fanthropology/212611.html) Sign me up!