172: A Goodly Length in Times Past

[thefourthvine]

Okay, so, um, before we get to the recs (and there are recs - I know! I'm as stunned as you are), I have a question. Sadly, these leads us into deeply contentious waters, and I seriously considered hiding this behind a cut tag, because I love Best Beloved and don't want her to be lynched. But I trust you guys.

See, BB is watching The X-Files - she's just finished season one - and, um, she doesn't like it much. So she asked me to ask y'all some questions. For those of you who have watched the show, what's the best season, in your opinion? And what's the worst? And if she didn't much like the first season, mostly because she kind of felt like Scully got shafted, should she try any of the rest of the show? Please advise her, oh you who have watched the show. We will both be most grateful.

Now, before you reach for the pitchfork, can I distract you? I have things to recommend! Stories! Long ones! Because, you know, I've been away from this recommending thing for long time, so it seemed appropriate to come back that way. (Also, people are producing an astonishing number of fabulous longer stories lately, and this is a trend I want to encourage.) See? They are shiny and good. Please put down the pitchfork.

The One That Demonstrates, Once Again, That in the Jossverse, Retirement Is Only Possible If You're Dead. (And Buried. And Rotted. And No One Who Loves You Is a Witch.) Otherwise, It's Just a Temporary Retreat. Lilac City, by nwhepcat. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Xander Harris/Faith Lahane.

I have a peculiar love of post-Sunnydale stories; to be perfectly honest, that's my primary reading (and, OMG, writing) area in BtVS these days. (It probably says some unfortunate things about me that I'm much less interested in the whole fighting vampires, saving the world thing and much more interested in where you go after you've saved the world. A lot.) And I also have a deep and abiding love for stories in which Xander is a person as opposed to, you know, a speaking prop in a comical shirt.

In other words, this story might as well have been made for me. (For some reason, I'm now tempted to break into song: "This fic is my fic/This fic is your fic/This fic was maaaaade for you and me!" And, whoa, I got flashbacks just from looking up the lyrics for that one, and of course I did have to look them up, because otherwise I get that song mixed up with the one about Tipperary. Or maybe it's Dixie. Thank you, music teacher of my elementary school: without you, I would not know how to sing several dozen songs about peanuts and cowboys and land, usually all at the same time. Also, because of your fine tutelage, I can bang arhythmically on any damn tambourine you care to hand me.)

Um. I think I was actually talking about this story, wasn't I? Right. So. This is Xander after Sunnydale, and he's settled into what we might call a very low energy state. But the thing about being around Buffy for a while - it's kind of like the Chosen-ness wore off on all of them; they gave her some normalcy, and it's like in return she gave them a bit of destiny. So, of course, trouble finds Xander. And he totally steps up. I love that, and I love how it unfolds, and there's one particular scene in this that I just - it was totally unexpected and wonderful and perfect, and I remember reading it while I was Trapped in a Hotel Room with Dogs and squeaking loudly enough to wake up Best Beloved.

The One That Is a Public Service Advisory on the Dangers of Heteronormativity for Everyone. From Superheroes to Supervillains, Heteronormative Assumptions Harm Us All. Useful Arts, by rivkat. Smallville, Clark Kent/Lex Luthor.

I love this one because - well, because, first, Lex Luthor is one of very few characters anywhere who would deliberately create a pheromone for his very own pheromones-made-them-do-it story. I mean, other characters - pheromones just happen to them. You know: it's the flowers' fault, or maybe the strange quirk of alien biology and/or ritual, or maybe the chocolate just has that extra special mystery ingredient. (Or, in The Sentinel, it's canon, in which case you have no choice as a fan fiction writer but to go there, too. I mean, obviously.) But Lex - Lex doesn't let things just happen to him, oh no. He makes them happen. Even if he knows damn well that he shouldn't.

Which is another reason why I love this story so damn much. Because Lex makes just about every major plot point happen and he knows it. That self-awareness - this is how I fucked up, this is when I fucked up, this is why I fucked up, these are fourteen historical references that thematically depict my fuck-up, and I knew all this at the time and did it anyway - is something I love to see from Lex, whose motto is apparently, at least in part: "If I don't outsmart myself, who will?" This story, in short, makes me want to simultaneously hug and smack Lex, and thus is just about perfect.

(And, as a serious, major bonus, it gives me a Supergirl I actually like. I never really gave Supergirl a chance in comics - there's, um, other issues in the way, there - but if she's like this, it might almost be worth dealing with those issues. She's like Clark, except a) comfortable in her own body and b) without all the buckets of "Yes, I'm more than human, but isn't more less in this case?" angst. I mean, I love Smallville's version of Clark, don't get me wrong, but it's refreshing to see someone managing to be superpowered and gorgeous and a hero to all without somehow turning that into a source of great personal unhappiness.)

The One That Proves That All Those Professional Perfume Creators, with Their Subtle Top Notes and Crap, Are Totally Missing out on Some Very Obvious Scents Guaranteed to Induce Passion in - Okay. Geeks, Mostly. I Fail to See a Problem with That. Instantaneous, by Cimorene, aka cimorene111. Stargate: Atlantis, Rodney McKay/John Sheppard.

You know, I'd say the actual show - and remember, my experience isn't all that extensive here, so feel free to correct me with charts and graphs and what-have-you (I welcome multi-colored charts! I find them very inspiring! ...What. So I was a science geek; I blame my genes.) - is maybe 10% boys with toys. (Oh, shut up. Not that kind of toy. Sadly, the canon is 0% boys with that kind of toy, and will be until we get Squee TV up and running ("By fangirls, for fangirls. And anyone else who loves genre television and sex").) This story is conclusive proof that it should be 40% boys with toys, 40% girls with toys, and they can have the other 20% for - whatever. It doesn't matter. Funny hats, for all I care. (Actually, funny hats would be kind of...never mind.) My point is, when you have great characters, and you put awesome toys in their hands (and, see, that was totally funny, and you'll have to read the story to find out why), greatness is the result.

At least, in the hands of Cimorene, greatness is certainly the result. I've been regularly re-reading this story ever since she posted it, and it just never stops being fun. It's everything I adore about SGA, basically. (Or everything that doesn't include cliches, crack, AUs, grimly realistic SF, and stories where someone has to make friends with a super-smart squid.) It's fun. It's snarky. It's got a great little gimmick that turns into a fantastic plot. And there is sex.

I tell you, when we get going with Squee TV, I am totally nominating Cimorene for a job writing one of the shows. She'd be fabulous at it. And her stories would absolutely contain the appropriate ratio of boys with toys.

The One That Proves That, When Given a Choice, You Should Always Take the Bigger Boat. (Although, Really, I Think a Single Viewing of Jaws Should Be Sufficient to Teach That Lesson, but Some People Are Stubborn.) In the Wrong Story and Wandering Blind, by katie_m. Stargate: SG-1, Sam Carter/Daniel Jackson, Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill, Sam Carter/Daniel Jackson/Jack O'Neill.

You know, I'm not sure if it says more about this fandom or more about my tastes within this fandom that it was serious agony to pick only one of the many long post-apocalyptic SG1 stories that I want to recommend for this post. I mean, part of it is just that - well, you need something major to break SG1 (the team) out of the mold, and an apocalypse is a good way to do that. And part of it is that I'm a happy endings addict, and a lot of the happy endings I see for these people require, well, an apocalypse. It's like their motto is: "The end of the world is the first day of the rest of our lives."

And, yes. I am perfectly willing to have billions of off-screen deaths in exchange for my on-screen happy ending. When it comes to fan fiction, I am all about the needs of the few, okay? And the billions of deaths are definitely totally off-screen in this story; we start with Sam and Daniel, picking up the pieces (that's in In the Wrong Story, and I'm just not capable of seeing these two stories as anything but two parts of one long one - actually, they're kind of two-thirds of one long story in my mind, but these parts are entirely complete in themselves), and then move on to Sam, Daniel, and Jack, still picking up the pieces. I love that.

I also love the way the threesome plays out in this, because too many OT3 stories are all: "Hey presto, and the characters are together, and it's all perfect and also there are unicorns! Yay!" (For that matter, too many OTP stories go that way, too, but that's a deal for another day.) This story shows three smart but complicated people working out their relationship, with determination and difficulty. I adore the realism of that.

Also, there's an awesome road trip. And zombies, kind of, and yet not the kind of zombies I'm afraid of. And world-building. And just - oh, too much good stuff to mention. So just trust me: this story is made of perfection, and so what if it's a perfection that had to be built on the deaths of billions of people? With SG1, these things happen.

Comments

[delurker.livejournal.com]

The last time I read Instantaneous, I spent the next week feeling vaguely resentful that I had to walk everywhere instead of teleporting. ::yearns::

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I know. Why can't we live in the future and have all the really good toys?

[belladonnalin.livejournal.com]

...

Wow. Your Buffy story is set IN MY TOWN.

Nothing has been set in my town since Benny and Joon. Awesome. Thanks for the recs.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I've never seen Benny and Joon, but I have to say - if you're only going to have one story set in your town, this is a fabulous choice. (And I'm actually rather curious to see how the story feels to you. To me, it has a very tangible sense of place that works really well; it does not seem like Some Random Place That Isn't Sunnydale, the way Cleveland often does in post-canon BtVS stories. Spokane feels real in this story, at least to me, and I'm wondering if it will to you as well.)

[meacoustic.livejournal.com]

I liked S1/S2 XF, because there was a slightly goofy quality that was sadly lacking from the six years that followed, but S4/S5 are good (if depressing). And then everything went downhill after that.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

So you'd say to stop at the end of season five? Good to know. (And, um, did season three suck? I notice it is conspicuously absent from your list of seasons you liked.)

Thank you!

[astartexx.livejournal.com]

I would say that Scully’s arc kicks up after her abduction at the beginning of season 2. It gets personal for her and while there is still so much more pain in waiting for her, she steps up to the game and in my opinion loses the slight sidekick status of season 1 completely. Mulder will still run of and do completely insane things and chase his own tail, but c’mon her dry ice glare can take his skin off if appropriate and make his tongue stick.

Uhm, yeah, BB should try to watch at least till Scully’s return without doubt the fourth season, which is in my opinion overall the best followed closely by season 5. And yeah, creatively speaking the first three beat the last three into a bloody pulp.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I would say that Scully’s arc kicks up after her abduction at the beginning of season 2.

Good to know. To the best of my ability to understand it - it's, um, kind of hard to grasp specific issues with TV shows you know nothing about - BB is uncomfortable with Scully being the sidekick to Mulder's hero, with Scully being set up to be wrong all the time. She likes Scully too much to see her being put in that position again and again. So if that ends, that would be very good news for BB with respect to future seasons.

Uhm, yeah, BB should try to watch at least till Scully’s return without doubt the fourth season, which is in my opinion overall the best followed closely by season 5.

You seem to be the second vote for "it's all downhill after season five." Did something bad happen then? And you're also the second vote for seasons four and five being the best ones. So, okay, this is sounding like good news, because at this point, I think BB likes the characters a lot more than the show, and it sounds like the show will get better. Yay! And thank you!

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

XF didn't really pick up until Seasons 3 and 4 - I didn't like S1 much, either. And my favorite episode of the entire series is S2, Humbug.

And of course, BB can entirely stop watching after Season 7. It's better that way.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

XF didn't really pick up until Seasons 3 and 4 - I didn't like S1 much, either.

Yay! It sounds like things will get better, and that not liking season one all that much doesn't mean BB is out of the XF game entirely. Thank you!

And of course, BB can entirely stop watching after Season 7.

Wow. Um. Just how many seasons did this show have?

[katie-m.livejournal.com]

And, yes. I am perfectly willing to have billions of off-screen deaths in exchange for my on-screen happy ending.

Exactly! Really, one's got to have one's priorities in order.

actually, they're kind of two-thirds of one long story

Oh, now I'm curious. Is it the front or back that you feel is missing?

(Thanks for the rec!)

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Really, one's got to have one's priorities in order.

Absolutely. Sometimes, worlds have to end. I accept this - no, I support it. If it takes an apocalypse to get to the happy ending, then by god we will have a damn apocalypse.

Is it the front or back that you feel is missing?

I feel sort of weird talking about this, largely because I'm afraid I won't explain it right. It's not that there's something missing, exactly - the story as it stands is a complete arc. It doesn't read like a work in progress or anything. And I love the story as it is. Just, okay. Sometimes, when I read something multiple times, as I will if I'm going to rec it, it's like - I feel like there's another part of the story in a specific place, lurking around the edges or right in the middle or between two sections or whatever.

To me, the front end of Wrong Story/Wandering Blind is complete, especially given Paths Worth Exploring and Needs and Standards. (I am curious about where Jack was those first two years, but that would be a new story, not part of this story, if that makes sense. In the same universe, but not specifically part of this story. And oh my god, I'm getting more and more tangled as I try to explain this.) You didn't begin at the beginning, but the information on the beginning is all in the story. But the end feels - it's not like it's not a resolution, it totally is. It works as it stands! But that weird feeling that I sometimes get says every time I read it that there's about another third of the story after the current ending.

See? This is why I shouldn't talk about it. I can't explain it. *hand gestures of helplessness* Did that make any sense at all?

If you're still curious, I'm willing to try to do better at explaining what I mean (although I warn you I will likely fail), but - it might require specific examples from other people's stories, so it would probably be better if we took it to email.

[siegeofangels.livejournal.com]

Yay, recs! And on a three-day weekend, no less.

"The end of the world is the first day of the rest of our lives."

God, yes. You've read frostfire_17's latest, yes? With the apocalypse and the awesome?

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I have not, in fact, read frostfire_17's latest, although I am really looking forward to it. I've been saving it, because I have the sense that once I start on it, I will not want to do anything else until it's finished. (And, okay, also because I've been ludicrously weepy the last few weeks, and, well, sometimes it's not good to start an apocalypse story in that state of mind. But mostly I'm just waiting for the right day, which I have all picked out and everything.)

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

Seasons 1-5 of X-Files are just fantastic, 6-7 are of variable quality, 8 is mostly bad and 9 is dreadful. If your Best Beloved doesn't like the treatment of Scully in S1, though, she may not enjoy the rest of the series. My absolute favourite season is Season 5, but a lot of that plays off having seen earlier seasons - 1 and 2 are the only two that really stand alone.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

*thoughtful*

Thank you; this is good to know. Seasons four and five are getting lots of votes for being the best; I wonder if BB will consider it worth watching just to get to them. And everyone seems to think that the show went seriously downhill after season five. I'm now really curious about what happened at that point.

I may try to get BB to come up with some more specific questions about her Scully Issues, because at this point the only one I've heard from her is, "Does Scully ever get to be right?"

X-Files

[par-avion.livejournal.com]

I think the best season is s4. Beginning of 5 is good too.

Re: X-Files

[iamrosalita.livejournal.com]

I would agree with that.

[flambeau.livejournal.com]

Personally, I loved XF up through s5 -- not every episode equally, of course, but still. I kept watching s6 and stopped about halfway through s7, although I have every episode on tape and may... may possibly watch them one day. or not.

Sorry. Bad breakup, and all that. *g*

[puritybrown.livejournal.com]

I know exactly what you mean. I have never been so bitterly disappointed in a TV show as I was with XF -- partly because I loved it so dearly for five years, and then came season six... augh.

I've been cautious about investing emotionally in TV shows since then. TV shows are heartless hussies that will seduce and betray you. I don't think it's a coincidence that the fandom I got into after XF was DS, which had a nicely closed canon with a happy ending.

[ldthomps.livejournal.com]

Just another vote for watching "Humbug", if nothing else of X-files. It doesn't play at all into the larger story arc, it's just really fun.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Good to know! (It sounds like it's about Christmas. Or a liar. Or both. I admit I'm a bit curious now.)

[utterfrivolity.livejournal.com]

I'm a little surprised that people are saying X-Files 4/5, because I would've said 3/4, without a doubt (and of course she should watch five as well, but if I had to choose, it'd be 3/4). Season 3 has my two favorite episodes of the entire series--"Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose" and "Jose Chung's 'From Outer Space'"--and plenty of other great eps besides. As with pretty much every season, she'll need to watch at least the last ep of the previous season to know what the hell is going on.

Whether or not Scully gets to be right...hmmm. Well, things change, Scully's opinions change, Mulder's opinions change, and no, Mulder's not always right even if he usually is, in the end. I have great hope that BB will be less annoyed by the treatment of Scully in later seasons. In the first season both characters are kinda underdeveloped, so you get Scully as this newbie skeptic who's constantly being shown the truth by Mulder, and Mulder as this bratty maverick who's always right. This definitely changes as both characters gain depth. It's the nature of the show that the skeptic is usually wrong, and that tends to be Scully, but they become full partners who respect and depend upon each other completely. I hope BB agrees, because the X-Files is a fantastic series!

[ignazwisdom.livejournal.com]

Seconding the the 3-4 vote! "Clyde Bruckman" and "Jose Chung" are two of the best episodes of anything EVER.

[aynatonal.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed your rec of Useful Arts. Fourteen historical references! If I don't outsmart myself, who will? Oh, I laughed and laughed.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Thank you! And, really, that's Lex for you: not only does he have to take over the world because everyone else is so bad at it, he has to be his own worst enemy because even Superman is just not good enough.

*pats Lex*

[dzurlady.livejournal.com]

OMG, Lilac City. There's a blast from the past. (Also, several hours of my life.) And also The Sentinel - I never thought about it before, but that's another example of how amazingly fanfic-y that show is. Hee.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Lilac City is totally a blast from the past. It's consumed probably tens of hours of my life, because I've re-read it so often.

And also The Sentinel - I never thought about it before, but that's another example of how amazingly fanfic-y that show is. Hee.

True. Although I suspect that the kind of fan fiction it most closely emulates is the ff.net kind. (I, um. Tried to watch the first episode. I was traumatized. It - there was the world's most unconvincing jungle, and truly unfortunate dialogue, and just, oh, all kinds of bad stuff. My point: the writers were definitely not bringing their A game, or if they were, oh my god, I don't ever want to know what it looks like when they aren't trying. No offense if you love the series, though. Perhaps the first ten minutes of episode one aren't really the ones where it shines.)

[platoeatssouls.livejournal.com]

I seem to be the voice of dissent, but I thought some of the later episodes (post season 5) were quite good. They get into some really cool modes of non-traditional storytelling - "Triangle" has a lot of split screens and tracking shots, "Monday" was really funny (I love time loops, I dunno) and "Hollywood A.D." is one of my favorites ever. Leaving aside the mythology arc, (which I never really got), there was a lot of good storytelling, even when things had begun to go downhill.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

You're not the only person to say there were redeeming episodes in seasons six and seven (votes for eight and nine are a lot thinner on the ground). You are not alone! And, truly, it does sound like there are episodes worth watching in those seasons - just, BB would need a native XF guide to get her around the obstacles if she were to try to forge past the season five safe horizon.

Nor are you the only one to warn about the horrors of the mythology arc, which is making me curious: what is the mythology arc? Everyone talks of it. It sounds to me like it should involve Scully and Mulder and gorgons or centaurs or something, but that seems unlikely.

[soupytwist.livejournal.com]

I love Scully a LOT. Her being inherantly set up to be wrong every time... kind of remains a problem (among quite a few things that Chris Carter just never bothered to work out and then kicked him in the ass), but les so, I think. She becomes an equal partner in the weirdbusting business, her emotions and her actions are just as important. Season one, she's the newbie - after that, not so much.

And I agree with platoeatssouls - up to season 5 is mostly very good, after that you want to avoid the mythology episodes. The mythology is where it all goes HORRIBLY HORRIBLY WRONG, but the one-shot episodes are often still worth watching. I always liked the monster of the week episodes a lot better than the mytharc anyway, but in the early seasons it was all dark and murky so it was mysterious and at least had the potential for an interesting reveal. Later, when they actually had to reveal something, it became very obvious they'd never had a clue (or cared) what the real answers were, and the more light there was the more embarassing that became. It's kind of sad, really, because mostly the show kicked ass.

I love cimorene111's fic SO MUCH (she was the first fic author I read who was any good, which clearly spoiled me for life), so thankyou very much for reminding me it's been a while since I read Instantaneous. And I liked the hand joke! Hee!

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Her being inherantly set up to be wrong every time... kind of remains a problem (among quite a few things that Chris Carter just never bothered to work out and then kicked him in the ass), but les so, I think.

Good news. It's the built in Scully's always wrong, Mulder's always right thing that is making BB twitchy, I think, so if it gets to be less of a problem, this is good news.

And now, of course, you've got me wondering about all the other things that Chris Carter never bothered to work out that came back to bite him. I don't suppose there's a list somewhere?

The mythology is where it all goes HORRIBLY HORRIBLY WRONG, but the one-shot episodes are often still worth watching.

What is the mythology arc? It sounds like it traumatized an entire generation of fans, but I have no knowledge of it whatsoever. So, as I told platoeatssouls, I keep picturing Scully, Mulder, and unicorns or whatever, and while that sounds improbable, it doesn't seem like it could be as bad as everyone's saying the mytharc is. So I'm a) guessing that unicorns are not involved and b) terribly curious about this whole thing now.

And yet not curious enough to watch it.

And I liked the hand joke! Hee!

Thank you! Someone who appreciates my humor. *glows with pride*

[joandarck.livejournal.com]

Lex, whose motto is apparently, at least in part: "If I don't outsmart myself, who will?"

Oh I love that, perfect!

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Thank you! (As I said to someone up above, Lex has to be his own worst enemy. There's no one else he can trust to get the job done right.)

[keerawa.livejournal.com]

Please to link SGA story where someone has to make friends with a super-smart squid. Pretty please?

[esther-a.livejournal.com]

I totally second this request.

[phnelt.livejournal.com]

Ok, so this is my less useful two cents on X-Files. Disclaimer: I was never more than a casual fan, so there are many many specific references that make no sense to me. But there was this one episode, after they switched Agents, I guess that means it was well past the golden age, where the whole plot revolved around people getting skinned alive. And being flayed so well that they could still be alive for an hour with no skin at all. And also after they died (from the lack of skin. With the every nerve ending burning in the slightest gust of wind) they would get reincarnated and have it happen all over again. For centuries.

Before this episode I had a fear of being skinned alive. After this episode I developed a phobia so severe I can no longer peel potatoes. And mashed potatoes are my favourite food. All I'm saying, the X-Files can ruin lives. I mean, as well as being good when it was good and confusing and generally upsetting when it was bad.

Thank you, music teacher of my elementary school: without you, I would not know how to sing several dozen songs about peanuts and cowboys and land, usually all at the same time. Also, because of your fine tutelage, I can bang arhythmically on any damn tambourine you care to hand me.

Story of My Life, right there.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

(OMG, your icon. Hee!)

All I'm saying, the X-Files can ruin lives.

I can see how this could be. Good god. The warning is very much taken, here. And, um, you've probably guaranteed that I'll never see any X-Files, because I'm a total wimp when it comes to horror. I hereby officially wimp out of X-Files. That should save us all a lot of cringing.

Story of My Life, right there.

*eyes you warily*

From the teacher side or the student side? Because if you are actually an elementary school music teacher, I respect you deeply. Please don't make your students play tambourines. And try to teach them at least one song that isn't about cowboys, peanuts, or land.

And if you were the kid who always got stuck with the tambourine - well, come sit near me. We can shake our "instruments" at random together.

[thecomfychair.livejournal.com]

Most of my favorite episodes come from Season 5, but the show really starts to hit its stride IMHO about halfway through S2 until the end of S5.

There are some S6 and S7 episodes worth watching, though. In the later seasons I tend to like, well, I guess you would call them "crack" episodes, ones set around an odd/goofy concept or premise. Triangle, How the Ghosts Stole Christmas,, The Unnatural, the Dreamland two-parter, X-Cops, and Hollywood AD are all of that sort and are really enjoyable.

I can't in good faith recommend much past Season 6/7, but if BB gets into XF she'll probably end up watching them anyway against her better judgment, just like the rest of us poor addicted folk.

The commenter who described X-Files like a bad breakup was spot-on.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Most of my favorite episodes come from Season 5, but the show really starts to hit its stride IMHO about halfway through S2 until the end of S5.

Good to know. Together, you and the other commenters have persuaded BB to persevere with with the show, so yay!

I can't in good faith recommend much past Season 6/7, but if BB gets into XF she'll probably end up watching them anyway against her better judgment, just like the rest of us poor addicted folk.

Oh, no. In this household, we have strict "canon ends HERE" policies; this is a major advantage of watching TV only on DVD. I can poll my friends list on where the ideal canon cutoff is, and then we both just pretend that the canon did indeed end there. It saves much heartbreak and sadness. We are very practiced at this. Okay, BB more so than me, because I tend not to watch any canon, but if I did, I would so entirely keep to idealized canon cutoffs. Pain saved!

The commenter who described X-Files like a bad breakup was spot-on.

Uh, yeah. It really seems to have left scars on a lot of people. I hope Chris Carter (...and I bet I'm not the first person to make a mistake and type that "Christ Carter"), wherever he is now, is happy.

[melannen.livejournal.com]

Season one is what we call the 'Fluffy Chickens' phase. I think it's best if you come back to it after seeing Mulder and Scully live through the next seven years of getting progressively more cynical, and then come back to S1 and it's like sudden sunlight. S2 and S3 are quite good, and I personally think that's where the best-plotted of the mytharc/conspiracy stuff is, and some of the best character work, but they weren't standout and have a lot of bad filler eps. S4 and S5 are just pretty consistently good, with a lot of really excellent one-shot episodes, and some solid plot and character work on the ongoing stories.

The reason everyone is probably mentioning them, though, is that they also had the very slashiest episodes of all. The ones where Mulder and Krycek are handcuffed together, hike across Siberia, and end up in a gulag together? And the one where they kissed, and all that? S4 and S5.

S6 and S7 still have a lot of good one-shots - some of the very best one-shot episodes, that always get named on people's favorites lists, turn up then. But the movie was between S5 and S6, and they completely screwed over the conspiracy/plotline stuff in the movie, and it never came anywhere close to making sense, or even being particularly interesting, after that. Also, Krycek got a girlfriend and some really ham-handed characterization. But you can't miss the goofy and excellent one-shots in S6 and S7 that the others have mentioned on this thread.

After S7, Mulder's actor quit, and they took away Scully's characterization in favor of making her all of her plotlines be about her uterus. I actually like the new characters they brought on for S8 and S9, and some of what they did with the plot, and some of the one-shots, but you have to pretend it's a completely different show, which had a completely different Mulder and Scully in it.

It's as if in Stargate S9 and S10, instead of having Jack retire in glory, they had him run off and join the NID, and Teal'c was killed off in a stupid way, and Hammond was demoted, and Daniel went to Atlantis, and they knocked up Sam with Jack's baby, and made her stop kicking ass in favor of having her weep and worry. Oh, and the Goa'uld just sort of faded off the radar instead of actually being dealt with. Cam and Vala and Landry and the Orii storyline would have *still* been great fun, it would just be very, very hard for Stargate fans to see past all the fail enough to appreciate that.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I think it's best if you come back to it after seeing Mulder and Scully live through the next seven years of getting progressively more cynical, and then come back to S1 and it's like sudden sunlight.

Awww. That's kind of adorable, actually; I can totally see how that would work better.

S2 and S3 are quite good, and I personally think that's where the best-plotted of the mytharc/conspiracy stuff is, and some of the best character work, but they weren't standout and have a lot of bad filler eps. S4 and S5 are just pretty consistently good, with a lot of really excellent one-shot episodes, and some solid plot and character work on the ongoing stories.

*makes notes*

(And, hey, I've read all this out loud to BB, and right about here was where she caved and added season two to our Netflix, so thank you!)

But the movie was between S5 and S6, and they completely screwed over the conspiracy/plotline stuff in the movie, and it never came anywhere close to making sense, or even being particularly interesting, after that.

They made the movie between seasons? I thought they only made movies from TV shows after they were off the air. It seems like it would be hard to have a continuous canon running on TV and movies simultaneously; you'd have all kinds of problems making the movies self-contained enough, for one thing. Plus, the storytelling would be weird. Just seems like a bad idea generally. I shake an admonishing finger at whichever people were responsible for making the X-Files movie. *admonishes*

After S7, Mulder's actor quit, and they took away Scully's characterization in favor of making her all of her plotlines be about her uterus.

...OMG. No wonder people describe this as the worst of all possible fan/canon breakups.

I think if BB gets that far, we'll just declare seasons eight and nine never to have happened. Our canon will end at season seven. (Or maybe season five.) Sounds like the best way.

It's as if in Stargate S9 and S10, instead of having Jack retire in glory, they had him run off and join the NID, and Teal'c was killed off in a stupid way, and Hammond was demoted, and Daniel went to Atlantis, and they knocked up Sam with Jack's baby, and made her stop kicking ass in favor of having her weep and worry. Oh, and the Goa'uld just sort of faded off the radar instead of actually being dealt with.

THANK YOU. This is the best explanation ever for the seasons eight and nine problem, and I now grasp it completely. And, um, am kind of horrified. Canon assassination!

[svmadelyn.livejournal.com]

Wow, I'm totally realizing I have no memory whatsoever of S5. Or...anything after. Though I do know I didn't watch more than three episodes or so beyond S5. (I had to watch when Lucy Lawless came on for a couple eps in S8; it was the height of my Xena love.) I do know that I loved S3-S5 with the deepest of passions; and...huh, S2's not ringing any bells either.

WEIRD. Anyway, I hope BB hangs in there for S3-S4 at least; it really was some interesting television. *g*

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

You had a Xena phase? It's astonishing what's buried in your fannish pre-history. *marvels*

Wow, I'm totally realizing I have no memory whatsoever of S5.

That's not a good sign. Although it sounds like you enjoyed the season, and then just...forgot it? Perhaps it is time to re-watch. This could be a sign!

Anyway, I hope BB hangs in there for S3-S4 at least; it really was some interesting television.

Well, she's signed on for season two, at any rate. We'll see if she manages to get all the way to season five. Keep your fingers crossed for her. (And for Scully.)

[fanofall.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I've read ANY of these, which means that you have managed to (a) find long fics (b) in my favorite fandoms that (c) I've never read before!

YOU ARE MADE OF WIN. Paul Gross Arms for you! \o/

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I WIN AT RECOMMENDING!

\o/ <--Look, I even figured out how to type Paul Gross arms on this weird keyboard, just to commemorate this occasion.

And I hope you enjoy them all. These are, in my opinion, truly awesome stories, and it is tragic that you haven't already read them.

[winter-elf.livejournal.com]

S1 is important for 'building' purposes. Stuff that you didn't think much off, becomes REALLY important later on. It's the characters beginning to learn each other, the sometimes rough edges. They start to get closer and tighter as they go. I liked S1 through S7. Stop after S7. I really like Scully, but yes, she is always wrong about the alien abduction/weird stuff happening. That's because she's the voice of reason. However, she's also the religious person, so any angels/god type happenings She is the believer and Mulder is scratching his head.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Stop after S7.

Oh my god yes. After reading melannen's SG analogy - oh, yes. I will forcibly stop BB before season 8, should that be necessary. (It won't be, though. She has a healthy sense of self-preservation.)

However, she's also the religious person, so any angels/god type happenings She is the believer and Mulder is scratching his head.

This is fascinating; no one else has mentioned this, and I totally did not know it. Cool!

I'm not bitter but I was burned

[infinitemonkeys.livejournal.com]

If you need another XF vote, here's mine: Season 1 is pretty decent set-up, but it kicks off properly in season 2 with the abduction arc and about three of the most fabulous standalones.

Season 3 is terrific and has some of the best TV I have ever seen in it. The end of season 3 is lame and was a SIGN had we but known it. But we didn't

Season 4 is slashier and has some wonderful acting in it. If you want an arc that makes emotional sense for Mulder and Scully, stop after the second episode of season five (redux II) and never look back. Seriously. STOP. BB WILL BE HAPPIER.

I hated, hated HATED the mytharse development of mid-Season 5, when it became All About Scully's [spoiler], so that soured me on that one, but it still has some great telly in it.

Avoid the movie. It is not enough that everyone looks so SO pretty. The shiteness of the plot will do your head in. Particularly the bee.

Season 6, if you must -- watch the standalones, which are terrific. The mytharse episodes are awful. You should know that even Bruce Campbell cannot save one particularly dreadful episode.

Season 7 is largely disposable, save for about four adorable episodes.

Season 8 and nine are just arse. The new characters are fine but the old ones get shafted and that rather sours the whole thing for me. Do not approach with a ten-foot pole and asbestos gloves.

Re: I'm not bitter but I was burned

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the season-by-season roundup. You lot have persuaded BB to persevere, and you have my everlasting gratitude. (Um, not that that has any actual face value. Perhaps it will give you a warm glow?)

If you need another XF vote, here's mine: Season 1 is pretty decent set-up, but it kicks off properly in season 2 with the abduction arc and about three of the most fabulous standalones.

Out of curiosity, which three? I mostly want to know so I can tell BB when she has something to look forward to.

I hated, hated HATED the mytharse development of mid-Season 5, when it became All About Scully's [spoiler], so that soured me on that one, but it still has some great telly in it.

I am really going to have to get an explanation for what this mytharc is at some point. (When people first started mentioning it, I was thinking in terms of unicorns or maybe gorgons. Obviously it's not that, but what is it?) It seems to have generated roughly the same level of hatred as some of the more major wars.

Particularly the bee.

...I'm trying to figure out whether or not I want to know what this means. I suspect not. And yet I'm so curious.

Do not approach with a ten-foot pole and asbestos gloves.

Thanks to melannen's SG1 analogy, BB and I have already decided that seasons eight and nine do not exist in our universe. They did not happen. Behold the power of canon denial!