Keep Hoping Machine Running (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
thefourthvine) wrote2008-04-25 08:14 pm
thefourthvine) wrote2008-04-25 08:14 pm
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Poll: Crossovers, Oh My
Recently, I was moderately flabbergasted to come upon a Highlander x Yami no Matsuei crossover. I had one of those moments of staring blankly at the computer screen, trying to figure out if I had experienced a sudden linguistic disconnect, and maybe in this language "Highlander x Yami no Matsuei crossover" actually meant "now we all get cake" or something, because surely such a thing, defined as I understood it, was totally impossible.
And then I read it, and realized that, no, it isn't impossible, and I was forced once again to reflect on the fact that Highlander seems to be a fandom that is just very open to crossovers. I know that's partly because, hey, you've got 5,000 years of mostly unfilled Methos backstory, and who is to say he didn't pick up a young Christopher Keller in a gay bar? He could have! He could also have spent fifteen years traveling around with Doctor Who. I mean, it's not like he'd necessarily bring either of those things up in conversation. But also, just, the Highlander universe seems to be unusually smooshy - it is totally willing to cozy up to, maybe even move in with, other canons, as I'm reminded every time the HL newsletter comes out and most of the new stories are crossovers.
Naturally, I got to wondering: what other fandoms are particularly crossover-friendly? And that led, inevitably, to thoughts of those fandoms that are much, much harder to work into crossovers. Which led to thoughts of AUs, which in turn took me to a terrifying meta place, and Best Beloved had to come talk me down. "How about a poll?" she said. "Polls are fun! And, also, you can probably finish one before you fall asleep." (Whereas with actual meta - at the rate I'm currently finishing stuff, I'd have it ready for posting in, um, 2012 or thereabouts, assuming no delays for rain.)
So perhaps you would like to write my meta for me? I offer ticky boxes as incentive!
[Poll #1177790]
And then I read it, and realized that, no, it isn't impossible, and I was forced once again to reflect on the fact that Highlander seems to be a fandom that is just very open to crossovers. I know that's partly because, hey, you've got 5,000 years of mostly unfilled Methos backstory, and who is to say he didn't pick up a young Christopher Keller in a gay bar? He could have! He could also have spent fifteen years traveling around with Doctor Who. I mean, it's not like he'd necessarily bring either of those things up in conversation. But also, just, the Highlander universe seems to be unusually smooshy - it is totally willing to cozy up to, maybe even move in with, other canons, as I'm reminded every time the HL newsletter comes out and most of the new stories are crossovers.
Naturally, I got to wondering: what other fandoms are particularly crossover-friendly? And that led, inevitably, to thoughts of those fandoms that are much, much harder to work into crossovers. Which led to thoughts of AUs, which in turn took me to a terrifying meta place, and Best Beloved had to come talk me down. "How about a poll?" she said. "Polls are fun! And, also, you can probably finish one before you fall asleep." (Whereas with actual meta - at the rate I'm currently finishing stuff, I'd have it ready for posting in, um, 2012 or thereabouts, assuming no delays for rain.)
So perhaps you would like to write my meta for me? I offer ticky boxes as incentive!
[Poll #1177790]
Crossovers vs AUs in various fandoms
Peering querulously at the listed fandoms with possible random additions as I type, I note that SGA and SG1 are cracktastic on the AUs, but seldom truly stellar on the crossovers (not counting with each other, or the more appropriate good-crossover fandoms like Who). I must insert here the usual caveat that a stellar writer can make anything happen, but we're talking about rules here, not the exceptions. Also exceptional would be choosing a crossover universe that meshes well with wormhole travel to distant galaxies where lived long-ago super-powered human-ish races -- such as Star Wars (though, oddly, I haven't seen any examples of that) or possibly the Lensman universe when Arisians were more active.
Similarly, but opposite, Methos or the Highlander himself make excellent crossovers with any historical *or* future universe, but I haven't seen many AUs (of the changed-background-universe sort) that seemed worthwhile. The only universes where a reasonable real-time crossover wouldn't work are fantasy and anime and the like. No doubt this could be done, but I haven't seen many of "Dunc'n, Bronze Rider of Pern!" sort of stories. Those could be as cracktastic as the SGA penguins, done right. *Is* there such a genre? And Methos could have lived through the Third Age of Middle Earth in his own sort-of-real-time, keeping his head down until all the magic bled out and the Western isles became Hawaii. Or the West Indies.
As I think some commenters have already said, shows set in 20-21st century police or similar backgrounds seem to take both AUs and crossovers pretty well. Given a slightly elastic timeline, they can often cross over with each other or with relics of historical universes. (Indiana Jones is *really* good for this trick.) In addition, when the background setting is so much a given to us the current viewers, it's more tempting to visualize the characters in some other reality, whether the stews of Betelgeuse VI, Heian Japan, or as talking azaleas in a hothouse.
Re: Crossovers vs AUs in various fandoms
*hears you on the dropsy*
*prefers comments anyway*
SGA and SG1 are cracktastic on the AUs, but seldom truly stellar on the crossovers
For me, SGA is the ultimate AU fandom; oddly, SG1 AUs don't often work very well for me, but the crossovers sometimes do. Truly, these are mysterious waters.
such as Star Wars (though, oddly, I haven't seen any examples of that)
There are some, though!
Similarly, but opposite, Methos or the Highlander himself make excellent crossovers with any historical *or* future universe, but I haven't seen many AUs (of the changed-background-universe sort)
One that's kind of both - have you read Dasha's Imperfections series? It's a TS AU (but still with sentinels), and in one of the earlier installments, the HL characters play a major part. I read that before I knew anything about HL, but I still think it works, and that's impressive, because they aren't immortals in that story - she made Duncan a sentinel, instead. And Ducan, in particular, is a character I have a hard time picturing outside his fandom, his universe, his millieu.
No doubt this could be done, but I haven't seen many of "Dunc'n, Bronze Rider of Pern!" sort of stories.
Yikes. Me neither. And I'm not sure I want to, although surely someone could write it and write it well. And, actually, his personality would fit in pretty well with a sort of classic dragonrider - he could be one of those who came forward in time.
*firmly wipes all thoughts of this from her brain*
And Methos could have lived through the Third Age of Middle Earth in his own sort-of-real-time, keeping his head down until all the magic bled out and the Western isles became Hawaii. Or the West Indies.
Someone actually wrote that in SGA, with John as an elf. (He has the ears.) It was really good. And if ever there were two fandoms *not* designed to mesh...
Indiana Jones is *really* good for this trick.
I. Um. Cannot quite picture this.
In addition, when the background setting is so much a given to us the current viewers, it's more tempting to visualize the characters in some other reality, whether the stews of Betelgeuse VI, Heian Japan, or as talking azaleas in a hothouse.
...And you have, of course, read the SGA one with John as a sunflower and Rodney as a tulip, right?
But, yeah, although I don't think it's necessarily the commonplaceness of the setting that makes the characters so transportable - I think it's how much the setting has to do with who the characters are. As I said to someone else, who is Buffy if she's not the Slayer? No one I recognize; her universe makes her who she is. Not so with, for example, Rodney McKay.
Re: Crossovers vs AUs in various fandoms
You could be right at that. I posted the comment before I suddenly remembered that I'd written an SG-1/Quantum Leap crossover with so much plot and legitimate problem solving that it's one of the three stories I've ever done without any sex at all. But QL, like DW, has the time-travel get-a-crossover-free card.
No doubt this could be done, but I haven't seen many of "Dunc'n, Bronze Rider of Pern!" sort of stories.
Yikes. Me neither. And I'm not sure I want to, although surely someone could write it and write it well. And, actually, his personality would fit in pretty well with a sort of classic dragonrider - he could be one of those who came forward in time.
Re-reading this sent me immediately to a slashy place where Methos (that is, M'thos) is a green dragonrider with whom Dunc'n hangs out a lot, M'thos having a reputation for surviving anything and then coming home to fuck anything afterward. Not sure there's more to it than that, alas.
But, yeah, although I don't think it's necessarily the commonplaceness of the setting that makes the characters so transportable - I think it's how much the setting has to do with who the characters are.
Yeah, that's it. I wanted to say that, but I was fumbling around with badly-digested litcrit notions about a mundane background allowing for more emphasis on nuanced characters, who are therefore recognizable in other backgrounds, and then I'd get all confused about whether many action-show character are nuanced on screen, or whether fans and fanon don't do half the nuancing. I don't usually watch shows I haven't already read fanfic for, so it can be hard to tell the difference. However it's done, McKay certainly carries his own universe, complete with cheering section, around in his head.
One thought here: Doctor Who would seem very much determined by his role of time-travelling meddler, yadda yadda -- I mean, where else does a disappearing blue telephone box define a universe? And yet, the different Doctor incarnations are very much distinguishable by style and mental quirks. It appears that nuance and unique universe shaping aren't mutually exclusive. Hmm, I may not really have the hang of this yet.