I guess I should have known hell would be full of paperwork.

[thefourthvine]

We're buying a house. Or we're trying to. This is a process that appears to be designed to teach you the folly of wanting to buy a house.

And the thing is, we already HAVE a house. We bought this one ten years ago, and the process was, okay, a little terrifying for first-time buyers, but it was nothing like this. The wrinkles that have been added in that decade:

1. They used to make you sign a stack of papers roughly the same size as War and Peace. (And you had to sign every single page.)
   
   Now, they make you sign (and sometimes also initial) every piece of paper in the world. We have twice - TWICE - had to sign a document indicating our understanding of the fact that people can farm. Not us, mind you. Just - people. Other people. Somewhere. They have the right to farm, and now we know it. After all, we signed a document saying we know it. Twice. (The Realtor who represented us when we bought our current house, who I miss more and more with every passing day, told us, "Every piece of paper you sign, that's a lawsuit." From this, I can conclude that every person in the state of California except us spent the last ten years filing property-related lawsuits.)
   
   
2. They used to give you all the papers in one big batch. This was scary, and also funny, because, see, I read everything I sign. It's like a sickness; I can't help myself. (I also read the agreements when I install software. There are some great lines in there, people, and I think I may be the only one reading them, because obviously the middle parts are written mostly to entertain the authors. I'm talking primarily about the parts with explosions.) Most people apparently don't, because last time, when we went to our Big Festival of Signing Documents, it took us hours and hours in the little conference room. Our escrow officer kept returning and asking if we had any questions. Or if anything was wrong. Or if we...needed anything. Every time she came back, the furrow between her brows was deeper and her voice was a little higher-pitched.
   
   Now, there are a few huge sets, but mostly they send you the documents in little batches. Every day. For months. So you get a full day to reflect on someone else's right to farm, and also the fact that you are not located in a flood plain, and also that you are indeed living in Los Angeles, where, it turns out, there are sometimes earthquakes. Then, the next day, you get to meditate mindfully on sixteen separate pages that basically say, "Hey, you're going to have to pay for this, you know." (You have to sign all sixteen, and also initial pages two and eleven, and the need to initial will not be obvious, and will require a further round of faxing.) This turns the Big Festival of Signing Documents into the Endless March through Document Hell.
   
   
3. They used to use technology - well, if not for good, at least not for evil. The last time we looked for a house, our Realtor would email us the current listings that matched our criteria, and we'd email her back with a list of the ones we wanted to see. Beyond that, there really wasn't any technology involved except the telephone. And the laser printer.
   
   Now, though, it's not so much with the email. (We can, after all, do all our own searching of the MLS, right there on a million websites.) It's the faxing. Apparently, there's a law that says that every one of the documents we have to sign (remember: all the paper in the WORLD) has to be faxed at least three times or we're not allowed to buy the house. And we do not own a fax, because I won't buy a machine unless it has at least one function I actually look forward to using, so this means a lot of me chauffeuring documents around town like I gave birth to them.

My basic response to this whole joyous process has been twofold:

1. Somewhere very early on, I lost sight of the house altogether. We've visited it a few times, sure, but we've spent easily three thousand times the hours with the documents than we have with the actual house. As a result, I keep forgetting that eventually we will supposedly, you know, have a new house. Instead, I dream of the day when we won't have any more documents to sign. I imagine that this will be nice for me in the future, in that if we ever actually do get the house, I will be delighted - a house! When I was only expecting a significant reduction in the amount of paper in my life! - but right now it sucks.
   
   
2. I spend a lot of time playing Realty Roulette. This is where I think of a place we could conceivably live - Iowa City, Iowa! Pittsfield, Massachusetts! Manchester, New Hampshire! (and rock on, marriage rights states, for giving me more places to play with) - and then I go to realtor.com to see what kind of house we could get there for what we're paying here. (By the way, if any of you knows of a real estate listings site for, like, Canada or New Zealand, that would really help me expand my Realty Roulette.) Since I never check San Francisco or New York City, the answer is always: a lot more than we can get here. A lot. Acres of land! Lakefront property! Historic homes gorgeously remodeled! Enough bedrooms for us to have five more kids! (Not that we would, mind you.) Enough square footage to host every fangirl in the state of Iowa simultaneously!
   
   And then sometimes I get really crazy - this is especially on the days when the house-buying process is so horrible that I am ready to go live in a tent in the wilderness, like, how hard could it be to baby-proof the great outdoors? NOT AS HARD AS BUYING A HOUSE, let me tell you. On those days, I go check out real estate in areas where I know we will be able to afford a palace. Turns out, for example, we could pretty much buy all of Flint, Michigan. Not that we'd want to - no one wants to, which is the problem, as I understand it - but we could. We could get together with some other like-minded folks, take over the town, and turn it into the Fannish Oasis! And then my mind spirals off into the awesome library we will have (it will have a zine section and a dedicated archives computer and a children's wing with only non-poisonous toys, and reading groups dedicated to classic badfic and cliches), and the awesome hotel we will build for cons, and the community garden, and eventually I've managed to forget about the fact that I am once again going to get into my car, with my car-hating child, and drive to Best Beloved's work to get her signature on documents that must be signed today or the world will fall into the hellmouth. Or so the email from the Realtor suggests.

Anyway. Today was an awful day, a new low in house-buying. (Anyone want to move to Flint with us?) So I developed a new mental escape, which consists mostly of imagining how various characters from various fandoms would handle this. Like, all those stories in which, say, John and Rodney buy a beachfront house in California? Not going to happen. When they get the document from the title company (and this assumes they won't need a mortgage, by the way) that requires them to list everywhere they've lived for the last ten years, what will they put? A basement in Colorado? Abducted by aliens? I bet they don't sell houses to people who are missing five years of their lives. I mean, we've lived in the same place for ten years, and there's some question about whether or not they'll sell to us.

Benton Fraser would probably carefully, correctly fill out every single form, returning it precisely as indicated, having read and thoughtfully considered each one. And then have a wild bout of hysterical blindness which could only be cured by the repeated application of snow. Canadian snow. (It cannot possibly be this hard to buy a house in Canada. Canadians are sane, right?)

And I don't know the Supernatural boys that well, but I'm guessing they'd either shoot someone or exorcise the whole damn realty profession no later than ten days into any attempted home purchase.

Anyone else have suggestions for how fannish people might handle this? I would be interested to know, because maybe there's a coping method I could borrow that's better than my current one, which consists of:

1. Fantasize, with the help of realtor.com.
   
2. Eat mint chocolate UFOs.
   
3. Cry.

(And, yes, I've already considered switching to exorcism. Does anyone know how to draw a pentagram around the state of California? I can't be the first person to have wanted to do this.)

Comments

[melannen]

You are aware that all realtors on Earth have, in fact, been replaced by aliens? (If you aren't, finding a copy of the Snarkout Boys would definitely be good for your current mental state anyway.)

I believe that both the Stargate folks and the SPN folks would be smart enough to notice this, and take out the space realtors with great prejudice.

...come to think of it, Benton Fraser probably would, too.

[thefourthvine]

You are aware that all realtors on Earth have, in fact, been replaced by aliens?

I was not. THAT EXPLAINS SO MUCH.

I believe that both the Stargate folks and the SPN folks would be smart enough to notice this, and take out the space realtors with great prejudice.

*wistful sigh*

...I'm sorry. Were you saying something? I was lost in a beautiful, beautiful dream. Of Realtors. Being met with heavy ordnance.

[damned_colonial]

Real estate search for NZ: http://allrealestate.co.nz (I used to be lead developer on that website, which is basically the same website as http://realestate.com.au/, and I kinda hate it, so, you know, fair warning. But I still do my own fantasy real estate shopping there, so.)

Flint, MI: count me in!

Buying a house in Canada: I once bought half a duplex in Ottawa, and then sold it again straight away when I was laid off, without ever getting to actually set foot in it as owner. It was before the recent housing market wackiness though. The paperwork was... moderate, I guess? Maybe a half inch or so stack to buy, and rather less to sell? Plus a bit more for the mortgage, which in the end I didn't have to take out, but again less than half an inch.

I don't remember there being anything about farms in it.

[thefourthvine]

Thank you! This will be an enormous help as I slowly and completely lose my mind. Now I can fantasize about healing from this experience in - hmmm. Wellington. Would Wellington be a good place to live?

I am taking names for Flint, MI even as we speak. What area would you like to be in charge of?

I don't remember there being anything about farms in it.

As I suspected: Canadians are not as crazy as Californians.

[kathmandu]

There's always looking for silver linings. If you stop trying to buy now and rent for a few years, then when you look again houses will be much cheaper.

"Does anyone know how to draw a pentagram around the state of California?"

I think that's what all those fiber-optic cables all over the place are for. You just need to figure out the route that would cause your packet to inscribe a pentagram.

Or, when you need a break from Realty Roulette, you could fantasize about landscaping for your new yard. I'm fond of pussywillows, bleeding heart, and golden-chain tree, but I'm from a well-watered part of the country. Flickr has pics of things to do instead of a lawn.

[thefourthvine]

I think that's what all those fiber-optic cables all over the place are for. You just need to figure out the route that would cause your packet to inscribe a pentagram.

Unfortunately, my brain has been consumed by paperwork. I no longer have the ability to figure out ANYTHING.

I think that's what all those fiber-optic cables all over the place are for. You just need to figure out the route that would cause your packet to inscribe a pentagram.

Water helps. (Although I spent much of my life in a place where people have rocks instead of grass, because there's no water. Compared to that place, CA is - well. Slightly less of a desert.)

[bluemeridian]

*volunteers to head up fan commune garden management*

[shadowvalkyrie]

Did you think this through? It will be the most bunny-plagued garden EVER.

[rheanna]

I offer you Northern Ireland's main property website in case you wish to broaden your horizone yet further. (And we have civil partnership here.)

When I bought my house, everything went fine right up until I went to sign for it, when my solicitor noticed that, according to the official maps, part of my garden didn't belong to me. The whole thing nearly fell through and it was a ghastly couple of days.

[thefourthvine]

I am enjoying Northern Ireland's website immensely. It turns out that it is really much more fun to imagine moving to a new place if it has a name like Monasterboice or Grange Rath. But what is "reception," and why would I want three of them?

The whole thing nearly fell through and it was a ghastly couple of days.

Oh good lord. I take it you do now own your own garden?

[ratcreature]

It's a wonder your housing market didn't collapse sooner. How are they finding people to go through with this?

I'd totally move into a fannish commune though I'm not sure about Flint, Michigan. Maybe once you guys get to have affordable health care... Perhaps we could settle in Europe somewhere instead? Or Canada?

[thefourthvine]

It's not like they tell you up front that it will be horrible. They wait, and let it creep up on you. It's the foot in the door policy - you've already invested so much time and effort that surely it's worth just a bit more. And then a bit more. And then a bit more. And then you're weeping into your golden tofu.

I'd totally move into a fannish commune though I'm not sure about Flint, Michigan. Maybe once you guys get to have affordable health care... Perhaps we could settle in Europe somewhere instead? Or Canada?

Europe is crowded and therefore expensive. But I bet there are some parts of Canada that are more than ripe for a fannish incursion. *plots plots plots*

[dira]

I will move to Flint if you will let me work at that library! We can give Michigan a second outpost of liberality and get equal marriage voted in that much sooner. :)

[thefourthvine]

I think you and Best Beloved should run the library. *nods decisively and adds you to the Flint Plan roster*

(Although we are now considering Places Other Than Flint. Which is really the story of Flint's life, isn't it?)

[ladyvyola]

the Fannish Oasis! And then my mind spirals off into the awesome library we will have (it will have a zine section and a dedicated archives computer and a children's wing with only non-poisonous toys, and reading groups dedicated to classic badfic and cliches), and the awesome hotel we will build for cons, and the community garden

Oh. Dear. God.

You see, I've mentally purchased a large local hotel/conference center and set up a not-for-profit fannish institute and installed dedicated servers to preserve historical archives and a large zine library and an extensive audio-visual collection and....

I take comfort in the fact that the blueprints are only in my head. I have not actually committed any of this to paper.

Did I mention the plan also involves winning the lottery and founding an Old Fan Retirement Home and setting up a trust fund to make micro loans to fans?

I, uh... have an interesting and varied fantasy life?

[kathmandu]

You have a public-spirited and socially-responsible fantasy life.

[kass]

When they get the document from the title company (and this assumes they won't need a mortgage, by the way) that requires them to list everywhere they've lived for the last ten years, what will they put?

Ahaha! Well, it's widely-assumed in the fandom that Rodney never got rid of his apartment in Colorado Springs, so I suppose they could just claim to have been living there. But it wouldn't really hold up. Hee.

And Pittsfield, MA is indeed a cheap place to live (and I'd be able to babysit the Earthling from time to time!) but parts of the "city" are a bit, er, crackhouse-riddled; lemme know if you ever want actual recommendations. ;-)

[thefourthvine]

But it wouldn't really hold up.

No, it wouldn't. These people are like terriers. Terriers from hell. *mutters darkly*

And Pittsfield, MA is indeed a cheap place to live (and I'd be able to babysit the Earthling from time to time!) but parts of the "city" are a bit, er, crackhouse-riddled; lemme know if you ever want actual recommendations.

I picked that city because my aunt lives there, and I was Very Very Very Impressed with it when I was 15 and visiting her. (She does not live in the crackhouse area, for the record.) It was all so - green! And old! And brick-filled! For a girl from the west, it was eye-opening.

But if you live there, too, that's knocked it several places up on the list. (Although I cannot help but notice that the schools are mostly really crappy. Do people just do private schools in Pittsfield?)

[indywind]

::sympathy::
no, wait, make that ::empathy::

Spouse and I are trying to buy a house. We have discovered that, regardless of how we finagle our finances, with tax credits or gifts from someone's mom or whatever-- whatever we want is always nearly exactly $15,000 out of our price range.
However, we also discovered that the very day that we made an offer on a decent house we might be able to afford, my university employer announced their plan for dealing with longterm budget reduction is to lay off staff over the next year and dissolve several academic units including the one in which I work.

Is it more stupid, or less, to buy a house for the first time while staring down the barrel at unemployment?

[thefourthvine]

*joins you in house-related commiseration*

On the bright side, house prices will probably go down in the next few months, as more people put their houses on the market in the summer. But the whole unemployment thing - yeah, probably if you're just barely within the range of what you can afford, it's not a good time to buy a house.

*sad*

[aukestrel]

One way to cope is maygra's technique of redrawing the map of the US (and the world) to reflect more closely your fannish reality. I don't want to drive to Denver to see Kellie so, look! Denver's next to Cincinnati now! etc.

(This would also play in to your realty roulette game and you could add in the gay marriage states on general principle.)

The 2nd to last time we bought a house, my husband was overseas and I had to sign everything as myself and then everything as him with the printed words "by power of attorney blah blah blah" and then my signature. Again.

Y'know... I had forgotten about that. HE STILL OWES ME!

[thefourthvine]

One way to cope is maygra's technique of redrawing the map of the US (and the world) to reflect more closely your fannish reality.

Yes, but I want it to be REAL. I want tesseract capability. *sulks*

The 2nd to last time we bought a house, my husband was overseas and I had to sign everything as myself and then everything as him with the printed words "by power of attorney blah blah blah" and then my signature. Again.

*stunned*

I cannot imagine going through this without Best Beloved. And I really can't imagine calling her up and going, "Well, it's nice. Um. It has bedrooms and things. And you can see some pictures online! Should we spend a ludicrous sum of money on it?"

[bessemerprocess]

I've been playing the Realty Roulette with an eye towards a fannish commune. 'oh, look at this house. Half my flist would fit in there! And it's within walking distance to the library.'

I am all for this Flint idea, and would like to run the museum of fannish history.

[thefourthvine]

Excellent. Obviously we need a museum of fannish history, and since you thought of it, you get the job.

*adds you to the Flint roster*

[avendya]

I would totally join a fannish commune.

(*cough* fannishcommune *cough*)

[gnomad]

\o/

[gnomad]

I spend a lot of time playing Realty Roulette.

Oh, I spend a lot of time doing this, but with rent instead of houses. I'm in a one bedroom at a rent that is only slightly above the median for my city, but compared to every other place in the country (save NY and SFO)? It would buy me a mansion. Sometimes literally. Sometimes still at half the price. *headdesk*

I just have to keep up a steady stream of "I love where I live, I love where I live, I love where I live" and not think about it too too much. Plus, if I were to move to a different city, it is likely that I wouldn't be paid as much for my job, which would make those lovely prices look slightly less great.


You know, I think the idea of the Old Slashers' Home/Slasher Commune has been floated around long enough that we should just Go Do It.

[avendya]

I am renting an apartment in Silicon Valley for the summer.

In DFW (where I currently live), I could get a 1500 sq. ft. 2 BR, 2.5 bath townhouse in a gated community. In one of the most expensive (and nice) parts of the city (North Dallas).

Me? I get a 350 sq. ft. studio apartment.

... yeah, definitely fannishcommune time.

[mamadeb]

Ohh, a fannish commune.

I can...oh, dear, someone else has claimed cooking. Well, we can share. Or I can do for the weird diet/veggie folks, given I'm the first and can do the second.

[murklins]

I have been buying a house in Canada since early April. I say "since early April" because of course once your offer is accepted you start going around telling the world that you've bought a house, when in fact you have not actually done any of the house buying work yet. I'm not going to believe the house is bought until I have slept in it and the cops fail to show up to arrest me for home invasion.

I have to sign things every day, and my current task is a 24 page behemoth that needs to be signed in triplicate, witnessed by a lawyer, and then faxed *and* couriered to Vancouver, where my new house is located. The signing must then be repeated by my partner on the other end.

We had a going away party one Friday night in May (we are optimists, it's true, to think we might actually succeed in this process and be allowed *move*). At 9pm my real estate agent called from Vancouver to say we had to sign some documents that very instant. We were tipsy and surrounded by 50 of our closest, drunkest friends, without a fax machine or a designated driver in sight. Our neighbours let us stumble over to their place to avail ourselves clumsily of their fax -- three times, since our celebratory brains no longer understood how to operate simple machinery. The next day, it turned out they would not be needed those documents for another week. Naturally.

[fjbryan]

we could pretty much buy all of Flint, Michigan. Not that we'd want to - no one wants to, which is the problem, as I understand it - but we could. We could get together with some other like-minded folks, take over the town, and turn it into the Fannish Oasis! And then my mind spirals off into the awesome library we will have (it will have a zine section and a dedicated archives computer and a children's wing with only non-poisonous toys, and reading groups dedicated to classic badfic and cliches), and the awesome hotel we will build for cons,

Yes. DO IT!!

But seriously...I dread the day we have to sell this house, for all the reasons you have listed here. Someday, someone will come up with a better system. Or we will move to Flint, set up a co-housing commune, and never leave to find out any different!

[kathmandu]

Um. I don't know if you've seen this? Flint is bulldozing outlying houses and letting the land "return to nature". This is because they can't afford to keep supplying city services to outlying neighborhoods; they are encouraging the last remaining residents of depopulated areas to swap for homes in the city center.

So, on the one hand, fewer houses in Flint. On the other hand, maybe a nice gardeny city with more walkability?

[thefourthvine]

WHOA. On the one hand, apparently Flint has even more financial problems than most areas right now. On the other hand, that sounds like it's going to improve Flint, overall, so - I guess way to make lemonade from really shitty lemons?

[minxy]

You know why this is funny? Besides the fact that you are often hilariously funny even about unfunny subjects?

It's funny because I currently live (am scraping by) two hours North of you, and I am about to move to Nowhere, New York. In Nowhere, New York, my rent will be half what it is in California, and I will have four more rooms. Because I live in a studio right now. And I'm moving to a two bedroom, lake-front cottage. By myself. No housemates of evilness, no scraping by.

It's funny, sort of. Although I'm a little sad to realize we were kind of neighbors while I lived here, and I never realized.

[china_shop]

By the way, if any of you knows of a real estate listings site for, like, Canada or New Zealand, that would really help me expand my Realty Roulette.

Open To View (NZ), Real estate on trademe.co.nz.

I think the only thing I had to sign when I bought my house was the sale & purchase agreement and the mortgage papers. I may have conveniently blacked out several days of bureaucratic hell, though. Never can tell with my memory.

Good luck! You can do it! ETA: More importantly, it will be worth it!

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

*studies NZ property with extreme interest*

Would we like Wellington? We could live there! (Although I don't know that they'd let us into the country.)

[casspeach.livejournal.com]

We bought a new house two years ago now and I still can't stop looking at estate agents' windows wherever we travel, even though I solemnly promised myself we would never never never never move again.

I would make an exception for the fannish enclave though, that sounds cool. I presume the broadband speeds would be good?

Good luck with your move. The writer;s cramp from all the signing wears off after a while!

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

We bought a new house two years ago now and I still can't stop looking at estate agents' windows wherever we travel, even though I solemnly promised myself we would never never never never move again.

It's awful. I don't remember from last time how long it took the Shopping for Real Estate Goggles to shut down, but this time - seriously, I should be banned from realtor.com for bandwidth hogging reasons. Also my own safety.

I would make an exception for the fannish enclave though, that sounds cool. I presume the broadband speeds would be good?

Of course. And free wifi throughout town, of course.

[catwalksalone]

You might want to expand your Realty Roulette to Britain. We have a whole lot less paperwork and civil partnerships. Also? We do not use the word 'escrow' which I count as a major plus point. Every time I see that word I boggle. Escrow? Escrow?

Leroy Jethro Gibbs would just stare at the realtor until they signed all the paperwork for him.

Bernard Black (if forced to move to the Satan's pit of fiery death that is America--his words, not mine) would do it through a haze of alcohol and then would have to do it all again because apparently it isn't okay to sign with just anybody's signature, you have to do it with your own.

Dan and Casey would do it on air and mock each page as they read it.

And now...work. *sigh*

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I really, really love the image of Bernard Black trying to buy a house in California. Lives would be lost. I would pay cash money to watch it.

You might want to expand your Realty Roulette to Britain. We have a whole lot less paperwork and civil partnerships.

Absolutely! Is there a real estate website I could browse? I hear Yorkshire is lovely in the winter!

[jamjar.livejournal.com]

And yet, I still have nothing but envy because something like 60% of Londoners at a recent poll do not anticipate ever being able to afford their own house.

My parent's house? £12,000 when they bought it (which yes, cheap, run down fixer-upper not the best area, etc.) If it had kept pace with inflation, it'd be worth maybe £70,000. Instead, houses in that area are more like £280,000 and all those other factors -that the area is still really not the best, that the houses are cheap, run down fixer-uppers are all still true.

I blame buy-to-rent people. And Thatcher, of course.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Is it sad that those numbers don't really surprise or alarm me? Large city real estate: not for the faint of heart. (Although I don't know if Londoners can do "drive until you qualify," which has been the primary means of getting a first house in LA. People commute for hours to be able to buy a house.)

But, hey, now I feel better: I could live in San Francisco or NYC (or London), where we'd be able to afford - hmmm. *insert pause for realtor.com browsing* Roughly the house we're living in now, except for the price of the new house, or else a condo. Whee.

[lazy-neutrino.livejournal.com]

I would forget the house, buy a plot of land and use all the paper to build a giant nest-like strcture.

We have signed to say that we may not keep pigs, or become pork butchers. A friend is allowed to have all the pigs he wants, but he must give up his dastardly soap-making ways, and cannot have a fence at the front. So no pigs for him either. Perhaps I should build a fence, make soap behind it and laugh at him?

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I would forget the house, buy a plot of land and use all the paper to build a giant nest-like strcture.

That is a BRILLIANT idea. Why did we not think of this?

We have signed to say that we may not keep pigs, or become pork butchers. A friend is allowed to have all the pigs he wants, but he must give up his dastardly soap-making ways, and cannot have a fence at the front.

Good lord. Where do you live, that people are constantly making soap and pork?

And obviously this is a scheme by the powers that be to drive you into collective living. You have the soap-making house. Your friend owns the well-trained pig-rearing house. (Or your friend could use electronic collars on his pigs.) Presumably somewhere there's a house that permits fences AND pigs, and is thus for the less well-mannered ones. Your profession is determined by the home you buy!

You seem to be thwarting this plot pretty handily, though. *applauds*

[azurelunatic]

I can help assist with the exorcism of California.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Excellent! We should hold a meeting of the Exorcising California Committee sometime this month. I will provide cookies.