If You Want to Flame Me, Here’s How: Help for the Apparently Hopeless

[thefourthvine]

[Note: this is a fannish LJ, not a political one, so no election comments will be found herein. If you're curious about how I'm feeling, email me and I'll tell you.]

First, I have to say how disappointed I am that I even need to write this, but it is entirely clear that I do. I have in my possession a small collection of flames regarding the content of this LJ. They all have one thing in common: they are pathetic. I mean, there was a time in this world when a flame meant something. I grew up grinding my teeth as I chanted, "Do not feed the trolls" like a mantra. It used to be difficult to move on without responding. And do you know why? Because those trolls were actually good at what they did. They wanted to piss me off, and they succeeded.

From this LJ, though? The very best flames have made me laugh. Most have just left me worried about the future of bitter rhetoric. So it's apparent to me that if I want flaming as an art form to be preserved for future generations, I need to act now. Thus, I'm offering the short course on "Flaming for Dummies." Because evidently some people out there really need it.

1. Don't paint the target on your own forehead. So, for example, if you're responding to a rant about poor spelling, grammar, and usage, don't make copious tragic spelling errors in your email. All you're going to do is reinforce my beliefs. (Well, and make me giggle, which was likely not your intention.) I'm really not going to give up on the English language just because it's too hard for you.
   
   
2. Say what you mean. Sure, meaning what you say is important, too, but it doesn't matter how sincerely you believe your statements if no one else can understand them. I can't be angry and hurt and insulted if I'm too busy trying to figure out what it means that you "het"* me. Do you hate me? Do you heart me? Do you get me? Do you want to have heterosexual sex with me? (For the record, if it's the last one, don't hold on to your hopes. I don't have sex outside my space-time continuum, and it's clear that you come from Alternate Earth #437, where they speak Genslih, that strange language that has some things in common with English, but doesn't make a lick of sense to English speakers.)
   
   
3. Know your target, part I. Before you write me hostile email, take four minutes to review my user info and read one of my posts completely. It will greatly enhance the success of your flames. Because, see, when you base your flame on the assumptions that, for example, I come from New York City (or Europe), I have a penis, and I am a teacher, I'm not going to be wounded. I'm going to be wondering if there's a website for mis-directed flames where I can post this so that perhaps the proper be-penised Manhattan-based educator will someday see it.
   
   
4. Know your target, part II. If you're going to insult me, then insult me. Please. Do not simply state the truth and expect that I will understand why it's a bad thing. For example, if you tell me that I like boys, or that I like girls, my reaction is going to be that yes, I do, at least in some specific cases, although I'm working every day to make my misanthropy all-encompassing, so be sure to check back later. If you tell me that I shouldn't think I'm better than other people just because I "write good,"* I'm going to focus on that last part first. I do write "good." I write it all the time, because this is a LJ about good fan fiction, but I wouldn't call it an ability of which I am particularly proud. Or do you mean that I write well? Because in that case, um, you've just complimented me, which is not going to enhance the burn at all. So by the time I get around to the first part of your sentence, which was the supposed insult, my only possible response is, "I don't think I'm better than most people. I just think I'm better than you, but only because you can't flame me for shit."
   
   
5. Sarcasm is not for everyone. Specifically, it's probably not for you. I mean, you got offended by that comment I made because you didn't get that it was sarcastic, right? Well, if you can't recognize it, honey, you sure can't use it. Stick to insults you hear in daily use on a kindergarten playground. Or, you know, if that's too much, I could probably dig up some links to form flames for you. Just let me know how I can help; I want to make flaming me as easy and successful as possible.
   
   
6. If you caused your problem, don't come crying to me. Let me emphasize that you are welcome to read this LJ even if you don't read slash; I'm happy you're here, and I do post some stuff that won't bother you. And I have received email from people who are looking for non-slash recs in one of my fandoms, and I have helped those people, because they were balanced and polite. In other words, they didn't send me feedback saying, "Slash sux and you sux and slash is sick and you are sick you need help."* Please note that I am not the one reading a LJ named after and filled with stuff that, by my own account, makes me sick, so I have to suspect a misdiagnosis on your part.

-Footnote-

* Quotes are mostly sic, but I did correct capitalization in certain cases so as not to strike readers blind. A secret message from me to people who need it: while I appreciate your desire to implement capital letters, they are not something you can simply toss into your writing at random. They are really only appropriate in certain locations. If you are unaware of that, please stop writing, for all our sakes. Thank you.

Comments

[shrift.livejournal.com]

Oh, darling, I'm so right there with you.

Do you get flames because you're not representing certain fandoms equally? Because nestra and I often get lambasted because we don't do RPF. Even though we're not... interested in RPF. Even though, at last count, we cover over 100 fandoms. And even though we add to that number every update.

It's a losing battle. Luckily, we're not terribly upset by the flames. ;)

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

That is totally ballsy, bitching at you and nestra for not being multi-fandom enough. Or perhaps I should just say insane, because you guys are as broad spectrum as it comes in the fannish world.

But, no, I don't get that, probably because I'm not so very, very multi-fandom that people expect me to cover everything. Or at least I don't think I get that; frankly, I've had a few that were so incoherent they could've been discussing the 95 Theses.

Actually, I enjoy the people who try to expand my fannish horizons; they're helpful and kind and not at all insistent. I've acquired a lot of new fandoms thanks to dedicated pimping, but I've never had anyone persist in pimping after I said I didn't want it. And, I just have to say this again - I'm stunned that anyone would elect to send you two email complaining about insufficient fandom coverage. That's sufficient evidence for involuntary committal right there.

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

Does that mean I'm being, like, altogether too ladylike and restrained about Hornblower?

Cause I can pimp. All you have to do is make one of those encouraging little hmmm? noises people make and I'll line those boys up for you and start making them take their clothes off for your amusement...

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Does that mean I'm being, like, altogether too ladylike and restrained about Hornblower?

Yes.

I've flirted with HH many a time. It has lots that I like in a fandom - the age of sail, manly activities, silly hats, an active and enthusiastic community - but I've just never managed to get into it.

I do read some HH stuff, but somehow I keep skipping off the surface of the fandom; the stories I find are, for the most part, too opaque or too intricate or too cleverly canonical for me to use them as starting points. And the (visual - it's a TV show, right?) canon isn't very accessible to me. My Best Beloved can only watch so much, and right now she's already doing Farscape and Smallville for me; she doesn't have time for more (and, more to the point, we won't have space in our Netflix queue for a bit).

So, this is your official encouraging noise. I follow article_xxix and kiss_me_hardy, and I know, in both cases, why they were called that, so I do know a bit about the age of sail. I just don't know enough about the characters or the canon of HH to be able to get into its FF. But I'm never too proud to accept help. Or recommendations of smut. Or, ideally, both. So, if you're in the mood - pimp me, sugar. (And feel free to email me if you want; it's deepbluesea at postmark dot net.)

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

w00h00, Hornblower pimping!

crack_van's Hornblower overview (http://www.livejournal.com/community/crack_van/102417.html?style=mine) -- good general overview

ship_manifesto on Horatio/Archie (http://www.livejournal.com/community/ship_manifesto/36413.html) -- the most-written pairing of those who came to HH through the TV series (Horatio/William is more common among bookverse slashers)

Two Evil Monks' screencaps gallery (http://www.twoevilmonks.org/hh/hhmovies.htm) with enough snarky captions to get some idea of the plot as you go along. Miss Kittie's screencaps ditto (http://willowflower.net/misskittie/hhcaps.html).

Archieology 101 (http://members.tripod.com/archieology101/) also has (Archie-centric) ep recaps that'll tell you the plot of the most important eps, slash-wise.

For recs... start with tanacawyr's fanfic (linked from her LJ). "Time Well Spent" is short and sweet, set during Horatio and Archie's time in a Spanish prison. widget285 writes some very nice Horatio/Archie/Edrington threesomefic - start with "Time and Chance". We can rec til the cows come home, but first tell us what you want in more detail, so we're more directed.

[fairestcat]

since q_skud_ and commodorified are both almost certainly too polite to do so themselves, let me rec their All The King's Men Universe, which is easily some of the best Hornblower fanfic out there.

Really, the best way to discover the HH love is to watch one or two of the movies, for truly they are good and sexy and so so incredibly slashy its scary.

Although, the links q_skud provided to caps and summaries can supply some impression of both the pretty and the slashiness.

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

Too polite my arse. I'll shamelessly rec my own stuff if I think it's what's called for. In this case, I'm not so sure, especially since thefourthvine already says she reads article_xxix, so I figure she's had ATKMverse exposure already.

ATKMverse requires a certain amount of canon-savviness, I think. Or maybe it doesn't. I don't know. The bits that require least canon clue are also the longest of the fics. Anyway, at minimum, if you read the original All The King's Men (http://scriptorium.infotrope.net/fiction/atkm.mhtml) story by commodorified you will probably want to know at least a rough idea of the most important points of the 1st, 2nd and 4th TV eps (Duel, Duchess and Devil, Frogs and Lobsters aka Wrong War).

I'm told that Nature and Degree (http://scriptorium.infotrope.net/fiction/naturedegree.mhtml) can be read and enjoyed without knowing canon, or at least that quite a few people did so when I first posted it, so that might also be a starting place. There's a bunch of foreshadowing, though, that assumes at least a passing knowledge of the events of "Mutiny" and "Retribution" ... though in fact the mere title of the episode "Mutiny" is probably enough ;)

Those are the two places to start, anyway, or check the ATKM reading guide (http://scriptorium.infotrope.net/fiction/atkm-guide.mhtml) for a list of ATKMverse stories with recommended reading order.

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

As far as getting up to speed on the canon without having to watch every show, the links above ought to do you pretty well.

I'm good at the sort of general bouncy sqealing pimping, not so brilliant at knowing which fics to offer people at which time, so I'll only add that if you cruise the memories over at crack_van you will porbably find everything I would have recommended.

For me, a new fandom from a familiar writer or vice-versa, or else a crossover with a more familiar foandom, is easier than a total leap into the unknown, so I'm going to recommend starting with resonant8's _Telemachos_

http://trickster.org/res/telemachos.html

(unfortunately, her only HH so far, and while I really like her DS stuff, that makes me sad)

and nindulgence's Namesake

http://www.livejournal.com/users/nindulgence/23771.html

(nin, otoh, has a fair amount of HH fanfic, linked through her memories, and it's all that good. *is awed*)

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I've read, and even recommended, "Telemachos," because it's transparent even if you don't know the fandom, as long as you know something 'bout the age of sail. It's fabulous, of course. I'm reading the other story now.

And, of course, I'm trying to figure out HH, and I'm feeling better about it than I ever have. What I need now is a volunteer, someone who will field specific HH-related questions via email if I get into trouble. (I have these people for other fandoms - for example, fanofall did all the Jossverse stuff *plus* Sports Night, proving that she is the world's most patient and good human being.)

If you know anyone who might volunteer, please ask her to email me (deepbluesea at postmark dot net). All that's required is a knowledge of the canon and fandom. (Plus patience. Lots of patience. I ask stupid questions.) I can't offer stories or anything in trade, but I will do a recommendations set with a theme of the volunteer's choice, and I'll appreciate it forever. It's so much easier for me to love a fandom if I've got someone available to me who already does.

And thanks - I think - to those who have provided all this Hornblower information. It's gripping. Really, tragically, unfortunately gripping.

*grimly sails off into a new fandom*

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

I'm all yours.

marna

at

marna

dot

ca

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

Awwww, she's grim. That's cute.

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

It's utterly adorable. It really is.

I WANT to be sorry... a bit, at least...

*passes the grog over*

[shrift.livejournal.com]

Okay -- it's late, I've been out drinking, and whatnot, but livejournal finally isn't tossing error messages back in my face, so:

Nestra and I have only received a handful of flames. As the more visible member of our recs site, I think I've received the lion's share of nastiness. Most of the time, people are only hoping that we'll expand our fannish horizons, or at least trying to pimp us to a new fandom. It's rare that someone will take it to the extreme of flaming or ad hominem attack. But it does happen.

Frankly, Nestra and I know that we can't please everyone, no matter how many fandoms we cover. Sometimes we aren't interested. People have tried to hook me on Stargate: SG-1. Nestra watches, but she says she isn't invested enough to rec. And hey, that's fine by me, you know?

I would say that 99% of the e-mail we receive regarding the recs site is wholly positive, but it's that nasty 1% that always seems to stick in our minds. But like I said, Nestra usually smacks me upside the head when I get too wrapped up in things, so it all works out in the end.