thefourthvine | Slashy Nominations 103: I Wonder What Fool It Was That First Invented Kissing

Entry tags:

Slashy Nominations 103: I Wonder What Fool It Was That First Invented Kissing

Don't like the title? I do, but I can see how you might think it's a bit off-message for a recommendations set celebrating kissing. But I had a hideous time thinking of anything to put up there, and even after I resorted to searching, everything I found had, well, unfortunate overtones. I seriously considered "like kissing God," even though that was about drug addiction. I also flirted with "with eyes that saw not, I kissed her," (I'd have changed the "her" to "him," of course), but, well, if you know that one, you'll see why I refrained; I love the first part of that one, but the last bit makes me alternately recoil and hiss. (I freely admit that this may be an idiosyncratic reaction.) Plus, you know, the girl he's kissing is his daughter, which, in this context - ew.

So instead I went with sarcasm about kissing. It had a certain appeal.

Best FF That Shows Us That There Are Bad Habits, and Then There Are Very, Very Good Ones. Unplanned, by Beth H., aka

bethbethbeth. Due South, Ray Kowalski/Benton Fraser. For some reason, stories that don't use kissing as just a quick stop on the road to hot kinky sex seem to be more common in big fandoms. I think maybe in small fandoms there's too much tension; the writers are thinking, shit, if I don't get them fucking, who will? Whereas in larger fandoms people can have a certain confidence that if they don't get to the 69-while-hanging-from-a-chandelier* part, someone else will. This story doesn't get to the inverted oral sex, but I think you'll agree that it doesn't need to. I've loved this for a long time, had it in the recs database for a long time, but watching the canon made it so much better. Because the thing is, lots of times the guys looked like they were about to do this, like this is exactly what would happen if they forgot themselves for a second. They acted like a couple, so much so that there were scenes that seemed to end just before Ray and Fraser casually, coolly, and calmly stuck their tongues in each other's mouths. (And, yes, I will eventually stop trying to make everyone watch the dS canon. But those of you who have been here for a while may remember the SN Siege, when I had Obsessive-Compulsive SN Recommending Disorder for a month. This may be like that. Just warning y'all.)

Best FF That Will Make You Clutch Your Gum and Your Porn to Your Bosom, So Be Careful; No One Likes Sticky Porn. Things to Get Arrested For in Singapore, by

shrift. Sports Night, Dan Rydell/Casey McCall. Choosing this one was tough; SN has so many excellent kissing stories. But in the end, I had to go with this one, because it's just so Danny to do this; he's one of the very few people, real or imaginary, who can be annoying and adorable at the same time. (Mind you, dogs do this effortlessly pretty much all the time. It's only people who usually can't manage it.) Shrift sees this. She gets this. Which is why I love her dearly even though I cannot look at her name without wanting to re-read The Phantom Tollbooth. Or it's one of the reasons, anyway; there are many reasons to love Shrift, just as there are many reasons to love this story. (Yes, fine, I know that was a lame transition. If you can think of something better, let me know.) I love the structure of this story, how you go through the day following this recurring theme (or, hey, trope). It feels almost like an episode, with lots of snappy, funny dialog and a surprisingly touching conclusion. Plus there's random information about Singapore. How could I not love it? I couldn't. And you should join me in this love.

Best FF That Demonstrates the Deleterious Effect Confessions of Cannibalistic Urges Can Have on Your Sleeping Arrangements, So You Wannabe Cannibals Should Think Before You Speak. Or Not. Definitely Not If You're Sharing My Bed. Kryptonite, by

mimesere. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Oz "I've Forgotten His Real First Name Again" Osbourne/Xander "I Do Remember His But I Never Can Bring Myself to Use It" Harris. I have a weakness for Oz, that lycanthropic sayer of the strangest right things in the fewest possible words. But the thing that makes me love him makes him hard to write. (I suspect that the canon writers took him out of the show so that they wouldn't have to think so hard all the time.) Which means that a story like this one, where Oz sounds like Oz - I will go a long way for such a story. I will read Oz/Buffy for that. (I'd even consider Oz/Dawn, although I'd have to punish myself for Bad Bad Thoughts afterward.) Which makes it all the more wonderful that I didn't have to go anywhere unfortunate for "Kryptonite" - this is one of my favorite BtVS pairings, right here. I think we can all rejoice about Oz/Xander sex. And we can be happy about the length of this story, too; it's surprisingly long for an "only a kiss" piece. Note, particularly, the last segment - look at how much Mimesere manages to convey in such a short and seemingly trivial piece of writing, how much she manages to suggest without showing a thing. That is perfect, folks, a perfect ending, and not an easy thing to write. Be amazed.

Best Slash FF Featuring Entirely Chaste Behavior on the Part of All Participants. Or As Chaste As These Guys Ever Get. Nesting Place, by

destina. Master and Commander, Stephen Maturin/Jack Aubrey. This is very non-explicit, and what I like about it is how well it illustrates a certain thing about the M&C books. Because, OK, there's one part of one sentence in this story that Patrick O'Brian would never have written (at least as far as we know, although, let's face it, we don't know much about the guy - he could've been writing all manner of Age of Sail gay sex scenes in the privacy of his home, and, god, I'd love to live in a universe where he did); if you take that itty bitty part out, this whole thing, including the kiss, could've come directly from the books. Jack and Stephen are that close. Which makes the books so slashy they almost transcend slashiness. Reading them, I generally get the feeling the O'Brian was just being reticent and polite and eliding the sex parts. (Which, yes, I'm sure would mortify the guy if he was still alive. I'm reporting how I feel, not what I think, OK?) But I'm more with the nosy and the details and the smut, so I like Destina's approach, which is writing like O'Brian minus the gallant, respectful courtesy.

-Footnote-

* Is it wrong that I can see - well, no, but hear - this happening?

"I can't take this much longer. All the blood's rushing to my head."
"Whine whine whine. You think I'm happy? I got the world's worst wedgie, here."
"So cut the fucking cord already."
"Yeah, right. You like toast? You wanna be toast? 'Cause that's what'll happen if we fall."
"Jesus. Just - feeling really light-headed, here. Can't you die like this?"
"I'm not dying with my face two inches from some jackass's crotch, thanks." [thoughtful pause] "Huh. So, you really uncomfortable down there?"
"I told you, I'm dying -" [zzzzzzt] "What - oh. Oh. Oh Jesus God."
"Mmmm."
"Yes. Yes. Yes - oh no you shit don't you fucking dare stop."
"So. More comfy now? A little less blood pooling in your head?"
"No! I'm not more comfortable! Go back to what you were doing!"
"Maybe I would if you put that mouth to some use besides whining."
[pause]
"Yeah, sure, OK." [zzzzt] "Mmmmm."

And I refuse to say what fandom that was in on the grounds that it may - no, would - incriminate me. It wasn't any of the ones recommended above, though; I'll tell you that for free. Now allow me to slink off in shame for even thinking, let alone actually transcribing, this.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

happens to be Daniel.

Just because my mind happens to hold on to trivia like that.

Thank you! I knew it was something like that, but I was frankly at a loss for what, and if I'd guessed, it would've been David, which would have been wrong, obviously.

Daniel Daniel Daniel Daniel. I can remember this. I can.

And I can remember it without thinking about Stargate, because the last think I need is to associate those two fandoms. Once you've formed an association, it's a short step to imagininga crossover. Next thing you know, you're writing a crossover epic, and from there you're within spitting distance of insanity.

Daniel Daniel Daniel Daniel. Daniel "Oz" Osbourne. Right. OK. Thank you.

Now wait a minute, I thought it was Mary Sue's that were the launching point into jackets that fasten strangely. Drat. I've been going about this all wrong.

I can see Oz in pretty much any fandom. Really.

Well, Mary Sues are definitely when you have to be confined for your own safety and the safety of others. (Unless you're 13 or 14, and then you get a bye. Not that we *read* the Mary Sue, no, but we understand that it's a symptom of early adolescence, not insanity, and wait for it to pass.) Crossover epics, especially the seriously crack-addled ones, are merely a sign that your loved ones need to watch you closely, because the crazy, she is a-comin'.

I can see Oz in pretty much any fandom.

Seriously? So you can see Oz in, like, Oz? Or Highlander? Or Good Omens? You must tell me more about this strange Oz-transfer ability of yours; I am profoundly curious.

Well, he's travelled the world, why not Oz? He can wind Tick Tock and be silent and therefore thought most wise by Ozma's court and ...um, that's not what you meant, I fear (I don't have cable.).

Or I can see him standing at Shakespeare and Company leafing through the collected works of Kurt Vonnegut with no intention of buying it, when he scents blood, fresh blood, with a metallic taint, and a whiff of after-lighting, ozone and adrenalin. And the scent is very definitely coming from the young man in the trenchcoat walking stiffly toward the Employees Only door.

Or I can so very see Oz watching Crowley pull his sunglasses down, glare at a parking meter, push his sunglasses back up and walk away. And Oz would furrow his brow, see that the meter now showed that there were daisy minutes left of time before violation, shrug, note the name of the bookstore and shuffle off, hands in his pockets.

But maybe that's just me?

Good god. You do have a mystic ability to put Oz anywhere. Because those are all excellent. Clearly, you should thoroughly document the extensive travels of Oz.

(And I completely understand the not-having of cable. But do not speak to me of L. Frank Baum. I was scarred by the Oz books as a child.)

Hey, if I can link Harry Potter to Gaiman's Sandman, I can put into two fandoms into a blender and hit puree.

Fear my Power.

Hee. I don't know if you've watched Once a Thief yet, but that scene is, like, straight from the movie. Minus the fucking.

I did in fact watch the movie-pilot-thing recently, and that was in fact written for Once a Thief. Yeah. But I didn't admit it, or use any names, so we can all pretend otherwise, right?

I should be embarrassed about the fact that I've never seen the canon to that and have only read, like, two crossovers EVER with that fandom and yet, I had a feeling it was Once a Thief as well.

Shouldn't I?

No, no, there's nothing shameful about it. It just means you have a black belt in fandom. Wear it with pride.

(And, um. What the hell is he *doing* in your icon? That looks...really obscene, and yet I can't entirely figure out why.)

And, um. What the hell is he *doing* in your icon? That looks...really obscene, and yet I can't entirely figure out why.

Uh. I think he's just sitting with his elbow propped on a table and his thumb resting against his lower lip. I suppose it could be considered provocative or possibly obscene, but that's only because I think Callum Keith Rennie is sex on a stick.

Does it look more or less obscene when he's wearing a Santa hat?

I don't usually see the sex-on-a-stick thing with CKR - hell, I didn't even know that *was* CKR - but your icon is definitely helping.

*gazes at Santa hat icon*

*gazes at sans Santa hat icon*

You know, I think it's actually about the same in terms of implied obscenity. But, of course, the Santa hat one is giggle-inducing, because - well, because inappropriate Santa hats are always amusing, if the spate of Santa-altered icons last December is anything to go by. If you put a Santa hat on a Winston Churchill icon the "We shall never surrender" speech suddenly becomes a comedy routine.

I don't usually see the sex-on-a-stick thing with CKR - hell, I didn't even know that *was* CKR - but your icon is definitely helping.

Well, I do try to spread the, um, lust.*g*

If you put a Santa hat on a Winston Churchill icon the "We shall never surrender" speech suddenly becomes a comedy routine.

My friend and I have a saying that monkeys make everything funnier. I think that goes for Santa hats too.

YESSS! I , too, have a black belt in fandom! I KNEW it!

Probably only because you emailed me about OaT obsessively this week, though ;)

Yeah. I'm not sure it counts as, like, proof, given that you were one of the people who had to listen to my OaT-induced hysteria. At disturbing length. And with many asterisks and capital letters, too.

But trust me: you don't need proof. You definitely have a black belt in fandom. You know the secret mystical arts of Fandom Fu, much as

fanofall knows Pimp Fu.

I have such amazing friends. And with such fascinating special abilities, too.

It's nice to hear, as I am full of Fandom Angst today.

BTW, re: beta? What I'm looking for is more of a general what works what doesn't look at it - grammar and punctuation can come once all chapters are together, but right now I am just suffering from "Oh God, this sucks, doesn't it" and I need someone to bounce talk off of. You are a doll to let me send you such raw braindump stuff.

Aw. Why the Fandom Angst? Tell, tell.

(And the beta thing - I'm going to watch Point Break before I do a real beta on it, 'cause I've never seen it ever. But since you need a fic sanity check, I'll read it before that and just give you a very uninformed opinion, 'K?)

I'm just spending waaaay too much time on fandom and feeling crunched and squished in other areas of my life and not being able to stop. And, somehow, feeling pressured to perform. And getting performance anxiety - I need to surgically remove my ego from my fandom life and remember that I do this because I love it.

I am the flailingest wombat.

Sigh.

And thanks for the beta. I don't know my ass from my elbow these days, I swear. Also, I recced you recently, did you see? :)

Aw, but it was funny!

OaT is definitely a fandom of shame.

Hee. Yes, definitely. That's something to add to the Fandoms I Have Loved and Fandoms I'd Like to Love category: Fandoms of Shame.

Hmmm.

Wait, no. No. I'm not watching the whole damn TV series just to write a Fandom of Shame post about it. Apart from anything else, experience with the pilot-movie-thing suggests that I couldn't understand the show even if I tried to watch it.

I will be strong. Yes, strong.

The show is better than the movie, but much, much weirder. I mean, all the odd, very "Canadian" things about due South? Once a Thief has them all, only more so.

Actually, um. I don't see that many odd Canadian things about due South. So I would love to hear examples of Canadian oddities from OaT. (Not that I am going to watch the show, because I am not. Nope. Not me. No more TV for this girl.)

Reading them, I generally get the feeling the O'Brian was just being reticent and polite and eliding the sex parts. (Which, yes, I'm sure would mortify the guy if he was still alive. I'm reporting how I feel, not what I think, OK?)

I also have the feeling that O'Brian was just being polite, and I think it's quite possible that he *wouldn't* be mortified. Because he certainly likes to make sexual jokes - Stephen discussing the "little cock" on his diving bell, and the wonderful "Pray take off your breeches and bend over that locker" line. He also isn't coy about discussing sodomy, as in Jack and Stephen's discussion of the "No penetration, no sodomy," rule in one of the later books, and quite a few other examples.

Wonderful recs, as always!

So it isn't just me! Thank god.

I've been re-reading the books (yes, again, but I have a good reason this time; I have to decide which to give to

fanofall), and yet again I find myself stunned by the sheer, well, slashiness of it all. I read a substantial portion of Post Captain in the hallway of a movie theater (while the rest of my family was watching a bad movie) last week, and once again I found myself wondering if slash had somehow affected my brain. (Well, OK, I know it has. But I specifically wondered if it had made me incapable of not seeing slash - if my brain now just overlays everything - pinecones, tidal waves, Kwanzaa - with subtext.)

And then I remembered that I found just as much slashiness in the M&C books when I first read them, before I even knew what slash was.

You know, I think maybe an Age of Sail obsession makes a person inherently gay friendly. PO'B was apparently fairly relaxed about homosexuality - I mean, look at all those conversations between Jack and Stephen about buggery - surprisingly so, given his age and all.

You know, I think maybe an Age of Sail obsession makes a person inherently gay friendly. PO'B was apparently fairly relaxed about homosexuality - I mean, look at all those conversations between Jack and Stephen about buggery - surprisingly so, given his age and all.

And this makes me wonder, in a rambling way: I assume much of the detail in O'Brian's books is based on historical research, so is Jack and Stephen's relaxed attitude toward homosexuality based on this research as well as O'Brians own personal opinions? I guess I could do some reading and try to find out.

I've, um. I've researched this a little - not a lot, mind you, and it definitely doesn't make me an obsessive or anything, and I would totally bow to the better-informed opinions of, say,

damned_colonial and her ilk. My take is:

The books provide a fairly decent sampling of opinions as they were in the Navy at that time. Homosexuality/sodomy/buggery seems, from what little I have gleaned, to have been pretty much beyond the pale in most other parts of polite society back then; I mean, I wouldn't expect a lady even to know what it was, necessarily. But Navy men were generally aware of the practice of buggery, even if not of what we'd call homosexuality (i.e., the sexual preference).

Within the Navy, opinions seem to have varied extensively. You see this in the books, as when Jack and Stephen are talking about the decision of another Captain to court-martial a man for sodomy. Or all the ways the men (and past Captains) reacted to the gay officer that had a crush on Jack.

What I think is significant - although this could be pure self-delusion - is that PO'B chose to put Jack and Stephen at the far end of the tolerance spectrum. (And *both* of them - it isn't often that they agree on things like this, especially in the beginning.) And he addresses it fairly often, too, and in a number of different ways.

Thanks for summing up your research!

What I think is significant - although this could be pure self-delusion - is that PO'B chose to put Jack and Stephen at the far end of the tolerance spectrum. (And *both* of them - it isn't often that they agree on things like this, especially in the beginning.) And he addresses it fairly often, too, and in a number of different ways.

I don't think it could be self-delusion that this is significant, particularly because of Jack and Stephen's agreement, as you point out. They don't agree on much at the beginning - though they are similar in essential ways, like their love of music and their belief in the importance of loyalty. I suppose O'Brian didn't *deliberately* write these books to be slash-friendly, but he certainly succeeded.

I don't think it could be self-delusion that this is significant

Oh, good.

I also think it's relevant that the first book (in which there is a discussion of this very topic) was published in 1970. I'm not personally familiar with the mores of the times, and definitely not familiar with British mores from then, but I don't think there'd have been much in the way of pressure to be politically correct in re: homosexuality. In other words (because I know I'm not making much sense - I have a fever and a whole bunch of medication zipping around my bloodstream right now), I don't think his firm adherence to the tolerant end of the spectrum can be attributed to cultural revisionism. Especially given that he was already, what, 56 at that point? It seems like this must be mostly his personal opinion, rather than a reflection of common standards and beliefs.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who sees significance in all this.

I see what you mean - I think you were making sense despite your fever! (Hope you're feeling better, btw.) O'Brian was a cool guy, and I wish he had been around a bit longer.

Somewhat unrelated - have you ever thought of doing a set of recs focused on a naval/military theme? I was wondering how many fics are out there that try to make the hot sex fit into the reality of military life.

Hmmm. Well, the key thing with any recs set is the number of potential fandoms or stories in the set - I try to have four different fandoms and four different authors in every set. Offhand, I can think of four for a military one:

SG-1. (There are quite a few good stories that at least mention the whole Jack's-in-the-military thing, and several that actually deal with the consequences of Jack a) fucking a man who is b) one of his direct reports while c) they both must need some kind of security clearance for the jobs they do.)

TS. (There's only a few stories that would qualify, but Jim was in the Army, after all, and I've a read a few slash stories set during that time of his life; I wonder if I bookmarked any of them, though. Could be tough.)

HH. (Well, obviously.)

M&C. (Again, obviously, although I've noticed a tendency in both of the major Age of Sail fandoms to sort of gloss over the whole Articles of War/sodomy/court-martial/death thing.)

I suppose I could also tentatively include PotC stories that involve Norrington. And - hee! - Illiad and Odyssey stories, for a totally different look at being gay in the military.

Hmmm. I've got an Air Force, an Army, and three or four Navies. I need something about Marines. (Norrington, given his post, probably should've been a Marine, but he obviously isn't.)

And, oh, I just thought of a good title: It's a Great Place to Start. Well, I mean, it's the obvious title, isn't it?

Damn. I might have to do this one. Especially if you have any further suggestions for fandoms or FF.

(P.S. I also wish PO'B had been around longer, but the man was born in (I think) 1914 and died in (I think) 2000, so he did have a nice long run. I just wish he'd started writing earlier.)

I've noticed a tendency in both of the major Age of Sail fandoms to sort of gloss over the whole Articles of war/sodomy/court-martial/death thing.

Yeah - hot, loud sex on a ship can be fun, but also doesn't feel that real. One of shalott's M&C fics - The Undiscovered Ocean, I think - has that great conversation where Stephen tells Jack that the only way they can have sex is to do it regularly, quickly, and silently, and talking about it that way is hot in a completely different way.

Illiad and Odyssey stories, for a totally different look at being gay in the military.

Yes! Though I can't think of any, unfortunately.

I need something about Marines.

Hmm...Marines...do you read X-Files? I think Skinner was a Marine. It's been years since I read XF fic regularly, but I might be able to come up with some good Skinner fics that reference his past. Maybe Doggett was a Marine, too...I can't remember.

Yet another Army fandom is Band of Brothers, which I have just gotten into. General, dein Tank ist ein starker Wagen is a rather hot blowjob by

sabine101 that I think is accessible even if you're not familiar with the fandom. It seems realistic to me, though a blowjob in a tent not far from the front line probably isn't.

ILOVEYOUOHSOMUCH.

Four fics, four of my favorite fandoms, and I haven't read three of them. YAY!!! You are the fic-findingest wombat!

Yay! I have pleased the pimpingest wombat! (Of course, since you're responsible for me reading two out of the four fandoms here, it's not a total coincidence.) Which one had you read before? Out of curiosity.

Things to Get Arrested For in Singapore, because I am totally

shrift's bitch. :-D

Aren't we all.

*sigh*

Also, Query:

Have you found an extreme wombat to be yet? I will keep flinging extreme wombats at you haphazardly until one sticks, you know.

Apparently "fic-findingest wombat" slid right off you, so on to the next one. :-D

See, problem is I'm *not* the fic-findingest wombat. Sad, but true; there's other people who have far better fic-finding skills. I mean, check out

makesmewannadie's weird Google control ability; she can find fic in the weirdest fandoms.

But I'm so glad you plan to keep trying. I so want to be some kind of extreme wombat. Or maybe it's more a question of finding my inner extreme wombat. Hmmm.

You are just the Supreme Wombat. You don't need to specialize; you exist on a higher plane.

I love seeing Unplanned noticed. Fraser and RayK are so married that you have to see it to believe it. A thoughtless kiss is almost canon and Beth works with it seamlessly. Love it!

meep! *blush*

grazie :)

The link to Kryptonite isn't working, at least not for me at this moment....

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Slashy Nominations 103: I Wonder What Fool It Was That First Invented Kissing

Oz's first name

Re: Oz's first name

crossovers

Re: crossovers

Re: crossovers

Re: crossovers

Re: crossovers

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject