thefourthvine: Two people fucking, rearview: sex is the universal fandom. (Default)
Keep Hoping Machine Running ([personal profile] thefourthvine) wrote2005-01-21 12:48 am
Entry tags:

Rant: Enough Already

Life has been unkind to me and mine lately, which has driven me straight into the logophagic part of acquiring a very large new fandom. As always, it's making me testy. During these periods, I read an enormous number of stories, and I'm usually trying to back-engineer the canon, and, well, I'm not at my all-time most tolerant. Which, let's face it, is not really all that tolerant anyway. In short, it's time for another mean-spirited FF rant.



Lube. Lube is important. Crucial, even. I admire authors who take the time to lubricate their characters before anal sex. But there are some kinds of lube that are worse than none at all. In other words, please no more soap as lube ever ever ever. I mean, unless you want it to hurt like hell. (Shampoo is also out, folks. And do I need to explain why hair gel is a bad idea? Well, obviously I do, as I recently read a story involving just that thing, but surely most people understand that "sticky styling product" is not synonymous with "Astroglide," right?) Because, look - if you're going to make me curl up from flashes of sympathy pain, don't you want it to be deliberate? Helpful rule of thumb for lube: if you're gonna get creative, try it on yourself before you try it on your characters. (You're excused if you once had to deal with the aftermath of a friend grabbing the toothpaste instead of the spermicide, because, trust me, you see that once, you don't ever make that mistake yourself. In fact, you seriously consider labeling all your toiletries in Braille, on the off chance that a blind person ever wants to find lube in your bathroom and doesn't think to ask you.)

Cum. "Come." It's spelled "come," goddammit. And don't tell me it's confusing to have it spelled the same as an entirely different word. You speak English. You should be used to this. And if you can't tell from context whether it means "have an orgasm" or "move toward something," you don't speak the English language after all, so you're in no position to be making changes to it. Plus, if we never use "cum" to mean "semen" again, we'll never be confronted with the non-word "precum," which, in addition to being absolutely horrible, always makes me reach reflexively for my Latin-English dictionary. So know that when you spell it c-u-m you're giving some of us painful flashbacks to Latin classes so boring that, by the end of one of them, we could totally empathize with what it's like to be dead for two thousand years. (And by the end of four of them, we were envying Latin, which at least got to be used in orgies and stuff before it died. The best we got was slides, which I had never seen used as a teaching aid prior to this class.)

Per se. It is pronounced "per say." It is not written that way. Or purr say, or persey, or any of the other mutations your mind creates. Seriously. I suffered through two years of the aforementioned Latin class to learn facts like this. Make my childhood boredom worth something; use and spell your Latin phrases correctly. Or, hell, just leave them out altogether. I won't complain. (And you know, the worst part about the slides was that we almost never got to see them, because the teacher couldn't work anything that was manufactured after Diocletian died. When your career has reached the point where it takes three eleven-year-old girls to get your tie disentangled from a fucking slide projector, sir, it's time to find a new career. Or just stop showing slides. We all already know what the Coliseum looks like.)

Watch the cock. I know. You're thinking, wait, that's pretty much all slashers do, right? But I meant that you should be watching the cock's progress. If, the last time we heard tell of it, a given cock was slowly hardening, it should not be achingly hard one kiss later; it makes me highly suspicious of the cock's ability to stay the course. (Of course, if that's the point of your story, go you.) Likewise, if you're writing a detailed sex scene, try to have some actual sex in it. Too many stories these days go like this: 3 paragraphs of kissing, 4 paragraphs of increasingly intense groping and licking, 1 sentence of penetration, 1 sentence of mutual orgasm (which is generally blindingly incredible and often involves screaming), and then 4 paragraphs of afterglow. If that's happening in your story, you have a problem with pacing. Or your character has a problem with premature ejaculation, I suppose.

Akin to terror. What's related to terror? Fear, horror, dread, panic, and alarm, just to get you started. So if there's all these terms related to terror, why not use one of them? Don't just tell me that a given emotion is "akin to terror." Get specific! Either the character is terrified, in which case say so, or he's something else, in which case, hell, go crazy and tell me exactly what that is. Otherwise I'm forced to wonder about you - I mean, you know twenty-four synonyms for sexually aroused and not one for terror? Are you even from this planet?

Bruises. First: bruises are not sexy. They aren't. If you don't believe me, examine yourself the next time you have one. Second: it is easy to bruise someone's neck or breasts with your teeth. It's a lot, lot harder to bruise someone's hips with your fingers. Seriously. Dirty looks will occasionally bruise my Best Beloved, but does that mean I leave finger-shaped bruises every time we have sex? No. No, it does not, and that's because it's not easy to do. Nor is this whole bruising gig something that works for most pairings. (Yes, I'm sure Keller and Beecher bruise each other; for them, that's actually playing nice. But we love those guys 'cause they're not normal.) I think (I hope) writers sometimes use "bruise" to mean something else - pressing hard enough to turn the skin white, leaving the skin flushed and red when the pressure is lifted again. But some authors are definitely talking about real, actual bruising, and unless your characters have platelet disorders, it's just not that likely. Major exception: this is OK in Smallville, as long as it is Clark who is doing the bruising. Please, unless someone can explain to me why it makes sense ('cause, hey, no canon expert here), let's never again have stories in which Lex bruises Clark without benefit of kryptonite.

They don't like to watch. Here's a tip: straight men do not typically feel comfortable when their gay male friends have sex in their presence. They certainly don't carry on a conversation with whichever friend has his mouth free of encumbrance. But it's a sign of acceptance, you cry! The pairing guys are showing how comfortable they are with their new-found sexual identity, and the observers are showing their tolerance! Um. No. Because - let me put it this way. People, just in general, do not feel comfortable watching their friends get it on. (There's an exception here for certain straight men and their lesbian friends. A mildly irritating exception. Moving on.) It has nothing to do with tolerance and everything to do with, you know, boundaries and culture. Don't like that? Get off on an uninvolved, uninterested person watching? Make up a brand new culture or alien race, sister, because it won't work in a story set in modern America (and this is just a guess, but it probably won't work in most of the rest of the first world, either). And, for the record, most people are not comfortable being watched, either. Sex is not a spectator sport, for the very good reason that it looks stupid a lot of the time; let's leave the characters their dignity, shall we? I mean, unless you're deliberately taking it away, in which case, hey - go you.

Like a virgin. Or not. If you're painting a modern-day character over the age of - oh, I'll be generous and say 25 - as a virgin, unless that person is a nun or something I'm going to need a lot of back story. A fuckload, in fact. You want to say it's the first time Daniel Jackson has had sex with a man? I'm fine with that, willing to buy that, happy to go with it. If you're telling me that an encounter in a series-time story is the first time that Daniel has ever had sex, though, um - he was married. Among other subtle clues that he might have had sex at some point in his past. So come up with a brilliant explanation or surrender the virginity, please. And, really, what's so wonderful about losing one's virginity? I've done that. It wasn't, shall we say, pleasant. Now, partly that had to do with the circumstances, but it mostly had to do with the fact that it was my first time. I've gotten better at sex since then. Way, way better, and I mean in the enjoyment as well as the technique sense. And, really, I sort of like the characters to have the same advantage. So, look. If you want to write about virgins, write HP or pre-canon stories or something. I can believe in virginity in those cases, although I adore authors who write that first time as awkward, bad, and stupid as it often is. But please don't tell me that Blair Sandburg is a virgin at 28. Or Angel, who we saw have sex in canon back on Buffy, and who is three hundred years old. Or, god help us, Christopher Fucking Keller, who has earned that honorary middle name in a variety of ways. (And yes, I've read – well, skimmed parts of - stories making just that claim for all those guys.) First time in love? Fine for some characters. First time with the same sex? Fine with most characters. First time in a long time? Perfectly acceptable in many cases. First time, period? No. Please. No.

Think I missed something? Previous FF rants are here, here, and here.

Got some FF bitching to get off your chest? Share in the comments section. I like to know I'm not alone in my insanity.

Hate me and want to make sure I know it? Remember to flame with class.
missizzy: (Default)

[personal profile] missizzy 2005-01-21 11:48 am (UTC)(link)
I actually like Latin! Though as for cum, well, I give you a quote I thoroughly agree with, from one of my favourite X-Men het fics, "Mispelling isn't erotic-it's mispelling."

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 03:29 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, I like Latin fine now; I just couldn't take Latin class. (Of course, I can hardly remember any Latin now, because the boredom apparently destroyed the very brain cells needed to retain the knowledge.)

Ah, well. I still remember how to French braid my own (and other people's) hair, and that's something else I learned in Latin class. (Well, we had to do something while the teacher was fighting with the slide projector.)

[identity profile] opera142.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 11:54 am (UTC)(link)
Like a virgin.

Lord, I have ranted and ranted and ranted and ranted on this subject. May I add additional gripes about virginal characters who also utterly clueless about anything that is even remotely attached to sex... 'cause, you know, no one ever looks at porn, hears sex talk, sees nude humans, taken a sex ed class or gets horny until after she or he has had sex for the first time.

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 03:36 am (UTC)(link)
Exactly! Because there's a little switch inside of you that gets tripped the first time you have sex, and until that happens, you just don't have any interest in sex at all. That's why teenagers are such founts of restraint and cellibacy.

Seriously, though - you're right. It's insanely irritating when a character in his thirties has apparently never harbored a single sexual thought in his life. As just one example, orgasm should really *not* be any kind of a surprise to a guy who has completed puberty. I hate that.

(Although I'd actually like to see more stories in which people, especially younger teenagers (HP, XMM) had incorrect information about sex; I heard some fascinating rumors in my younger days.)
ext_7751: (Default)

[identity profile] janissa11.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 01:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Lube is important. Crucial, even. I admire authors who take the time to lubricate their characters before anal sex.

This probably puts me in the erring camp here, although I totally agree with the whole types-of-lube thing. (Lotion? Not as good as one might hypothesize. Try it. It stings. Ugh.)

But where I may go astray is in just glossing over (if you will) that whole area sometimes. The urge to avoid the one-two-three preparation ordeal means I like to hustle right on to the actual, you know, FUCKING bits, and I know there have been several variously spicy scenes of mine where lube was not even mentioned. I didn't mention it not because it wasn't there, but because -- aw, christ, it s l o w s down the narrative. And yet ITA: It's realistic, we must HAVE it, because without it -- except in certain Oz scenes, and various SM scenarios -- the bodily fluids spilled are not necessarily the ones we're after.

Thing is, okay. The lube is UNDERSTOOD in some scenes. I'm not sure if that's a foolproof writing scenario, understand, but I'll offer up any sample scene as target for barbs if wanted. There are scenes -- speaking generally -- that do not want to be slowed down by description of the mechanics. I also don't want to show fingers. I don't want to show preparation. I don't want anything but to show the EMOTION, and then some good lovin'. Would it BE lovin' without lube? Well, it'd be ouchie lovin', that's almost certain. So it's there. I just don't always TALK about it.

Maybe I'm just kidding myself here. Obsessing. But is this a context thing? Taking your time is great -- detail is great...except when it's not. And that is not very precise of me, I realize, but I think that approach works. It's what the scene needs -- not ONLY what the characters need in a realistic sense.

And now I'm just rambling.

[identity profile] opera142.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 02:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Lube sometimes gets more screen time than the sex act, and more often than not it's described in much more detail. I'd much rather read about a character's flushed skin or goosebumps than "a half-empty tube of lube" or the lube being pre-warmed.

Lube has very much become a cog in fanfic machinery. Few writers stop to think why it's in a scene or how the characters react to or tolerate it. It's just something that has to be put in, like a disclaimer or warning... done more to avoid getting barked at than for any artistic or sensual reason.

(no subject)

[identity profile] m-butterfly.livejournal.com - 2005-01-31 09:35 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2005-01-21 01:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Ahem. Anon because good lord is this TMI.

Regarding lube? I use it in fic, but not in RL. It's not a problem. I always use it in fic because I'm aware there will be an uproar if I don't, but seriously, IRL, it's an unnecessary mess, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, I'm the one getting fucked. No, this doesn't leave me sore.

My point is not that you are wrong, but that mileage varies, a LOT.

...maybe I should actually write this INTO a fic. Character A: Fuck me. Character B: *looks for lube* Character A: Don't! Character B: But... Character A: really. Really, really. I'm good without.
nopseud: (Default)

[personal profile] nopseud 2005-01-24 01:07 am (UTC)(link)
IRL, it's an unnecessary mess, as far as I'm concerned.

I heard the same thing at a sex tips by guys panel at a slash con -- some people are fine without. Likewise, I've always wanted to write it into a story just to see what people would say. Maybe I shall. :-)

here via daily_snitch

[identity profile] biascut.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 02:51 pm (UTC)(link)
As a lesbian, I take issue with the idea that "increasingly intense groping and licking" isn't sex. Doesn't have to be penetration to be sex, y'know! :)

Re: here via daily_snitch

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 04:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, see, that's a topic for a whole other rant, that people think by god penetration must occur or it's not sex at all, just, I don't know - calisthenic exercise, maybe?

I myself love writers who don't view oral sex or handjobs or mutual masturbation or whatever as a perfectly satisfying ending; in fact, I'm happier when first times don't go all the way to anal sex, because I well remember the days when I had sex with men (because - long-term lesbian relationship here, so men are in my past and with luck will stay there), and, well, not something I was all that keen to do the first time, y'know? So, especially with inexperienced characters, or characters who are switching teams, I find myself wondering what the fuck they're thinking. Anal sex takes a certain amount of care and coordination and trust, at least for me, and a first time in a hotel lobby just doesn't seem likely to feature that.

So, although I grant that it wasn't clear, when I said "increasingly intense groping and licking," I meant the signpost kind ("Now passing: Kissing with Tongue, pop. 2. Next stop: Fondling Ass, 4 min."), where it's just a mandatory step on the road to the Penetrative Holy Grail. (You know, for the mandatory slash-style sex: kiss, grope, strip, stroke, lick, 1-2-3 fingers, fuck, come. Yawn.)

[identity profile] hazelhawthorne.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 04:00 pm (UTC)(link)
I have to agree with the bruise=sexy thing.

I will go a step farther and point out that I know just how much pressure it takes to bruise me during sex and have in fact had sex that involved nothing but very talented hands applying just the right amount of preasure/pain to my upper arms and hips and bringing me off nicely in a public place. The resulting fingerprint bruises were a lovely reminder which lasted for weeks. And that's only talking about the ones made by hand. Bruises and welts left by toys? I'll save that for another time.

I know that many people do not enjoy this level of pain or the resultant bruises, but there are also many of us who do.

I will, however, take this time for a mini rant of my own. I can not tell you how many BDSM fics I have read where the author clearly has no experience in the scene and has not bothered with any research.

If you want to write a D/s relationship, or a bondage scene, or even a good spanking...

Please do some research. Try it out yourself or talk to a sub or Dom and get his/her perspective or even read one of the many good books out there on the subject to get a glipmse of what is realistic.

Please!
ext_9117: (Default)

more wanking, less winking

[identity profile] smallbeer.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 04:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Don't just tell me that a given emotion is "akin to terror."

heh. y'know, sometimes I think that these kinds of stylistic bloopers annoy me more than the hair gel used as lube or the Wildly Improbably Virginity stories. (well, I have to confess that I don't actually read the latter.) Fic writers seem to pass these kinds of tics around like cold viruses; one that I've noticed lately is winking. I find far too much meaningless winking going on in fanfiction (and my, don't I sound like a schoolmarm? stop that winking this instant, you two!) Sometimes there are multiple instances of random winking within one story--including, I kid you not, during sex--in spite of the fact that, in my experience, adults actually wink at one another fairly infrequently, and it usually has a specific communicative purpose. (And perhaps I've led a sheltered life, but I've never had anyone wink at me during sex, either.)

Winks; the "akin to terror" moment you mention; the inappropriate use of the words "arse" and "shite" (who would use these? well, not Snape, not Malfoy, not Potter, not any American character, ever, unless the writer actually wants to make this person sound like a complete tool); the phrase "the pad(s) of his finger(s)" which by virtue of rampant overuse, now has the power to throw me completely out of a sex scene; all of these and many more make me wish there was a requirement of weekly reading of non-fannish fiction for all authors. Just to update the verbal tics.

ext_9117: (Default)

Re: more wanking, less winking

[identity profile] smallbeer.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 04:04 pm (UTC)(link)
and that would be "Wildly Improbable Virginity" for 200, Alex.

Re: more wanking, less winking

[personal profile] zoerayne - 2005-01-24 11:22 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] kattahj.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 04:11 pm (UTC)(link)
And, for the record, most people are not comfortable being watched, either.

Will happily admit to being an exception, then, since I've done sex as a spectator sport more than once, and enjoyed it a lot. (Though I suppose people making suggestions and/or touching themselves can't be called uninterested...)

Then again, I'm not a straight man, so I guess the rule doesn't cover me anyway. :-)

[identity profile] kattahj.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 04:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Meh. More to the point (since I wasn't the one watching) the person watching me wasn't a straight man either.

[identity profile] driedplums.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 05:36 pm (UTC)(link)
>And you know, the worst part about the slides was that we almost never got to see them, because the teacher couldn't work anything that was manufactured after Diocletian died.

OK, it's odd that this is the quote that had me laughing the hardest, but I do also agree with everything you've said.

[identity profile] neoangelss.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't get teats. I mean, it reminds me of a goat, for goodness sake. Just... ew.

Love the rants ever so much. ^-^

~Neo

[identity profile] stellahobbit.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 08:18 pm (UTC)(link)
And if you can't tell from context whether it means "have an orgasm" or "move toward something," you don't speak the English language after all, so you're in no position to be making changes to it.

Thank you.

The TS Mayo Story

[identity profile] ozsaur.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I recced this on [livejournal.com profile] ts_flashback a while ago.

Le Dejeuner sur l'Herbe (http://www.squidge.org/%7Etheforest/ckc/ledejnr.html) by CKC

[identity profile] ardent-muses.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 10:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Excellent rant. You hit several of my hot buttons, and more articulately than I could have done. Cum is a particular abomination.

Since it sounds like you've seen some DS now (yay!), where do you stand on the virgin issue with Benton Fraser? Frankly, I think of him as NOT a virgin, but when I start trying to imagine him having sex with anyone pre-Victoria, my brain seizes up. (Kellie's story "Stealing Light" is an exception.)

He's got that first-time glow about him -- maybe permanently. PermaVirgin. :)

[identity profile] thefourthvine.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 02:47 am (UTC)(link)
Warning: my interpretation of canon is off, or at least different than most other fans'. (See also, for example, Ray and Stella, historical and canon-era relationship thereof.)

Here's why I have a problem with a sexually inexperienced Benton Fraser:

1. The man is nearly 40.
2. He's canonically highly attractive and appealing. To quote Speranza: "The Mountie love fest. It's everywhere. It's like disco." (See also Thatcher, Frannie, etc.)
3. He doesn't appear to have major hangups about sex or his own body, or any moral or religious stance that would preclude, say, premarital sex.
4. He seems to be a healthy adult with, you know, a sex drive and all that.

We sort of have to assume, based on 1 and 2, that offers have been made, and given 3 and 4, it's hard to see why those offers wouldn't have been accepted. But, nonetheless, I think they weren't. Here's why:

1. Fraser is honorable, honest, loyal, and dutiful to a fault, and he holds himself to high standards.
2. He seems, judging by his behavior in the canon, to limit the number of people he'll interact with as a person. As a Mountie or a Canadian, he'll interact with any damn person you please, but as Benton Fraser, not so much.
3. He takes sex and romance seriously.
4. Family is important to him.

From the above, I reason that if he'd had a past sex partner, it wouldn't have been a casual relationship (1, 2, 4). If it was serious, Fraser would certainly have continued things; he wouldn't wig (in the words of Tomato Nation's Sars) or get all avoidy and commitment-shy (1, 4). And he'd have been unlikely to break it off himself, no matter how horrible the other party was or how bad it got (1, 3, Victoria). So a hypothetical prior relationship would've ended in either Fraser getting badly hurt or Fraser getting married. If it had been the former, I think it unlikely that Fraser would've been so destroyed by Victoria. We know it wasn't the latter, unless the wife (or husband, if you like) died young of natural causes and had no surviving family of any kind. Otherwise, he wouldn't be in Chicago.

Supporting evidence:

1. He doesn't seem to know the tricks of the trade. (Sorry. Bad phrase. But you know what I mean.) People who have some relationship experience learn how to protect themselves, fight, retain some independence, avoid at least some major pitfalls and traps. We see Fraser learn part of this from Victoria round 2, meaning he didn't know it before, and the rest of it he apparently still doesn't know.
2. He doesn't know how to say 'no' and make it stick. People also have to learn this, except they learn it from flirting and dating rather than relationships. Adults who haven't yet learned went one of two routes: they stayed out of the game altogether, or they slept with everyone who wanted them. You know why I don't think the second one is possible, so for me it's gotta be the first one.
3. Also, most of Fraser's choices in the series seem intended to control certain aspects of his life and environment. Assuming that that was a lifelong habit, which it might not be - could just be a reaction to Chicago - it would have seriously interfered with his chances for romance, sex, or even flirting.
4. He really does not like to be touched (though there are a few exceptions to this), meaning he's less likely to have sought it in the past. Also, that might mean he doesn't associate touch with anything fun or pleasant.

Jesus Christ. I am blathering, and apparently could continue all night. Let me call this before I begin to sound even more seriously unwell, and just say: I think the reason you have a hard time imagining Fraser's pre-Victoria relationships is that you know any relationship that Fraser could've been in would've left tracks, and we never see the footprints in the canon. I think you're getting a virginal vibe from all that clean white snow surrounding him.

(Mind you, I'm perfectly happy to read stories that give Fraser prior sexual experience. This is just an opinion, and it's in no way a core part of my view of Fraser. And I'm not even confident about it as an opinion; it's not like I'm very good at understanding TV.)

[identity profile] sparkythehamstr.livejournal.com 2005-01-21 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you! (Though methinks I may be guilty of the pacing problem.) Now I must go read your other rants.

[identity profile] absurdwords.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 03:11 am (UTC)(link)
I think I love you.

I've read too many stories in which Snape was a virgin (in his thirties) and a sex god at the same time. 1. Never getting laid before the age of 37? Poor guy. 2. Too ugly to get laid? So only handsome people can have sex? 3. Shagging like a 'professional' on his first time? I think the author has never had sex, or at least never had sex with a virigin.

[identity profile] the-dark-twin.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 07:30 am (UTC)(link)
You don’t believe how much I agree with you on *all* these accounts. Perfectly sums up many of my pet peeves in slash fic. For the record, I do have platelet disorders, and I hardly ever come away without a bruise or two even with my very tender partner (and I can’t believe I’ve just told a total stranger that!), but I agree as far as they’re definitely ugly and not sexy, and yes, people are getting them mixed up in their fics with reddish finger marks all the time, which is annoying.

Anyway. Again, well ranted!

[identity profile] novanumbernine.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 10:50 am (UTC)(link)
hell, you're funny. *lol*

loving your rants, esp:

Weeping Cock. I mean, yes, fine, if you must, but some stories contain so much cock-weeping that I find myself wanting to put the cock on suicide watch and search it for sharp implements.

ahahahaha!!

n.x :)

[identity profile] rubynye.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 11:21 am (UTC)(link)
This rant is just WONDERFUL. Thank you. :)

I both agree and disagree on the bruises thing; the more important question is whether or not people are *mindful* about mentioning bruises, whether they think about them rather than just inserting them into the tale, but then a little mindfulness is good in general.

And as for lube....I think that many people have the idea that using lube in het sex is a failure of some sort, which may contribute to a personal unfamiliarity with it on the part of some writers. That said, I wish people would sometimes *think*, just for two minutes. Not every fandom has a drugstore that stocks KY around the corner---my primary fandom is LOTR FPS, which doesn't----but if one thinks about the characteristics of lube one can come up with *sensible* substitutes. I wrote a story once where my characters were horny in the woods in the spring, so one of them raided a bird's nest and they used egg white. I found out by doing a little reading that this was eminently plausible, so there we are.

I mean, *soap*? Does that stuff feel comfortable on the inside of one's *mouth* or one's *eyes*? Then why would it inside someone's *ass*? But anyway.

[identity profile] way2.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 12:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Having just read and enjoyed your rant and the links to your three previous rants, may I use your lj to get a few pet peeves off of my chest? (Apologies if these have been covered in the comments.)

1. Ministrations. *wince* Is it just me?

2. "said" as in "He took off his pants and put said pants on the floor." Maybe once in a blue moon, but, please, not in every third fic I read.

3. It's bad enough when the never-been-kissed lovers proceed to having Advanced Pyrotechnical Screamer Sex on their first go. How about when the desperately horny first-timers, having yearned from afar through long periods of angsty self-doubt and much wanking, finally fall into bed together, kiss, cuddle and FALL ASLEEP in the safety of each other's arms? Noooooooo!

I hope no one was hurt by this rant, because I am nice like that. Still, it does feel good to let it out.

[identity profile] chicken-cem.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 07:19 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree -- 'ministrations' is a definite turn-off, it's so cliched. And 'whelp' and also 'childe'. Let's see if I can construct a REALLY BAD example of a Buffyverse fic line, hmmmm ...

Angel's lubeless ministrations were brutal and bruising and made the virgin whelp cum really hard, although Spike was not strictly his whelp per say, but was more Angel's childe.

HAHAHA. Also notice I put some passive voice in there, just to make it even worse. I couldn't slip the 'akin to terror' in there, but maybe you can. Heh heh.

I hate to mock people who use these words, but they just make me cringe.

[identity profile] estepheia.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 01:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you.

Incidentally, the amount of lube necessary depends on the experience of the persons involved.
So, what is the alternative to 'precum'?

I have known 40 y/o virgins. Male. And no serial killers either. LOL.

Agree that bruises are not sexy.

Have to say that sometimes it's hard to keep track of things when in the throes of passion. What really annoys me is when characters who were practically on death's door in one scene are happily fucking like crazed weasels in the next, like two or three hours after having beaten to a pulp...

Great post.

[identity profile] ghostinthemist.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 03:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I ran across this searching for Billy/Bean slash, a thing in short supply, I fear. Thank you, thank you! I was beginning to think the non-word "cum" irritated only me!

Lube. Yes. Lotion, the wrong kind, can burn. Margarine is okay, a sesame oil-based massage oil is good, very light, very silky, and it lasts. I speak from experience. I know guys who keep massage oil for purposes of self-satisfaction. Seems even Onan could use a little help in that regard. Even cooking oil will work in a pinch...but soap? Please...

Other things that piss me off and put me off a story:

Writers who think that because they find Orlando (or whoever) is entirely fuckable everyone else does too. Guess what? I don't. I like cute. I like ruggedly handsome. I do not like pretty boys and never will.

Writers who actually believe their pairing is the only right pairing. Billy and Dom are okay, I suppose. Actually I'm being nice. That pairing bores me to tears. Same with any overdone pairing. I like the ones everyone is not writing about.

Subs have no power? Bugger that! Subs have a lot of power. They're in a lot more control than you might think. Again, I speak from experience. A good sub knows how to drive the dom crazy with lust.

Not enough playfulness. Sex is play, why not do it like people actually do and include play.

Love the rants, and they're very useful, besides! Being fairly new to slash I need all the good advice I can find.

Oh, and one more thing...biting goes with the bruising, I think. One guy actually ranted to me about that. He wanted to know who told chicks guys like being bitten. A nibble is one thing, a bite another.

Slash on...

[identity profile] chicken-cem.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 07:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't understand the lack of lube use in m/m slash, either. The vagina is self-lubricating, so non-anal het and lesbian sex often don't require any lube. But the ass is not self-lubricating! It's dry, and needs lube! Hello! When I put a finger in my girl's ass, I always use some Probe. If I use a toy, I used Wet Platinum (see here, scroll to the bottom: http://www.blowfish.com/catalog/supplies/lube.html).

Also, I don't understand this obsession with "pre-come" (or worse, spelled incorrectly as "precum", as you point out). I'm a lesbian, and so don't know a lot about penises, but was unfortunate enough to have played with a few in college (ewwww). I never saw/felt a lot of pre-come. When people write that Spike's cock could "prodigiously leak pre-come" or that his cock was "weeping" or that his jeans were "soaked" with pre-come, my mind boggles.

Someone with more experience with men, please tell me -- is this stuff just made up for drama in fanfic, this sheer quantity of the stuff? Or do a lot of guys really produce a whole bunch, and I just ran into a few in college (admittedly 14 years ago) who didn't?

[identity profile] pickinguproses.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 10:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Pre-come? Pfft. I've sampled my share of the male population, and a few ladies, and I'd say that women produce far more fluid during foreplay. As far as men go: a few drops, maybe, if foreplay goes on long enough. Enough pre-come to use as anal sex lubricant??? Give me a break.

(no subject)

[identity profile] chicken-cem.livejournal.com - 2005-01-23 11:09 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] crossbow1.livejournal.com 2005-01-22 07:28 pm (UTC)(link)
You rule. I do *not* want flashbacks of 10th grade Latin class while I'm reading slash, thank you.
cruisedirector: (disagree)

[personal profile] cruisedirector 2005-01-22 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)
...well. Glad to know there's something wrong with my anus, or my soap. (Not to mention Prell Shampoo, though it's been years and years and they may very well have changed the formula, if they still make it at all.)

I really dislike generalizations about sex in fiction. Because while any given story can squick me with any given event that in my personal sexual experience is Just Wrong or Doesn't Work That Way or Sounds Ridiculous, I am very aware that every single person I know has a very individual experience of sex that often runs contrary to mine, and that in any given story, a good writer can convince me of things that are not only outside my experience but in some cases contrary to it.

[identity profile] pickinguproses.livejournal.com 2005-01-23 04:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Screaming. I see it in fic all the time. I'm reading along, there's some really hot sex, maybe some nice rimming or something, and all is well and good. Then somebody throws back his head and "screams his completion." Grinding halt. The moment has been ruined.

See, in my world, men do not scream when they come. They don't. I won't believe you if you tell me otherwise. As a rule, women don't even scream when they come; therefore, I find it hard to believe that every slash pairing I read has a man who does. Cries out? Maybe. Shout? Perhaps. But screaming brings to mind, like, eunuchs or prepubescent boys, so...no. No, please.

[identity profile] estepheia.livejournal.com 2005-01-24 06:19 am (UTC)(link)
Oh yeah, I so agree. 'Screaming' is one of the words that ruin the money shot for me. I will accept a shout or a groan, but scream sounds like pain or fear or girls. In slash it's a complete turn-off. :-)

Page 2 of 3