Poll: Hot or Not?

[thefourthvine]

Recently, I was discussing the writing of porn with a party who shall remain nameless (unless she chooses to be named). The key part of the conversation went kind of like this:

Her: I'm writing porn that is very difficult.
Me: *sympathy*
Me: *rambling about ME ME ME*
Me, continuing to ramble: Like, when I was writing my Yuletide 2005 story, my recipient requested "hot het porn." And what I wrote was unbelievably not hot, the antithesis of hot. You were there for the shrieking hysterical breakdown, so I don't need to recapitulate.
[Note: For those many lucky folks not there for the breakdown: there was shrieking. And hysterics. And a post that is, mercifully, locked privately away forever, but can be summarized as, "I will fail my recipient and ruin Yuletide. I LOSE." In conclusion: porn does not come easily to some of us, and if you're just snickering at that, well, okay. I am, too. Join me in my club for the incurably low-minded!]
Me, still rambling: And when I reread that story, it is still the antithesis of hot, at least to me.
Me, rambling ever on: In fact, I don't think I've ever found anything I've written even remotely hot. Huh. Perhaps this is why I am so very bad at writing porn.
Her: ...I find the porn I write hot.
Me: Ooo. I feel a poll coming on.

And then I realized that today I would be in need of distraction. So - here is that poll. And it's only for people who have ever written any kind of porn, of any stripe, except the last question, which can be taken by anyone.

For the purposes of this poll, "porn" doesn't have to be NC-17 or even R; it just has to be erotic in intent. And you don't have to have written a lot of it. Once is enough! And it doesn't have to have been fan fiction, either. And any manner of porn - boy parts, girl parts, a delightful mixture of parts, merman/centaur (no, do not ask where the merman keeps his parts, for that way lies madness), tentacles galore, whatever - is equally valid.

Pimping of this poll would be not only welcome but, given the topic, entirely appropriate. If you know porn writers, why not ask them to come on over? I'd appreciate it. Distract me, people! I'm begging. Nicely.

[Poll #948511]

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/solo____/]

Right, comments. Some of the porn I write pings me, and sometimes I write it like that precisely because I know what works for me and hey, part of reason I write is that I want something to read that works for me. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

And I need to get into a porny mood to be able to write porn at all, so yeah, I can get rather excited during the writing process.

Then there's the problem porn where it's not actually meant to be hot, and I don't really (I think. I hope.) write it to be hot, and then I go back later and... um. Wonder uncomfortably what I was on that that reads hot instead of fraught or sick or whatever.

I don't know if my porn works for my readers like it does for me because so far I don't have many readers and we tend to discuss the porn least of all. This might of course be significant.

I don't find it harder or easier to write than other stuff. I need to be in the mood, but that applies to everything else, too.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Some of the porn I write pings me, and sometimes I write it like that precisely because I know what works for me and hey, part of reason I write is that I want something to read that works for me.

*envies*

There's not a (porny) story I've written that didn't have some kind of thing I'd like to read more of in it. And yet. If I've written it, it becomes, de facto, something I don't want to read more of. (Only true of porn. I write Epics That Must Not Be Read, and while they will never be read by anyone but me - oh god how I've learned my lesson on that - I re-read them for fun all the time, and I totally love them, even with their manifold flaws. But they aren't porny.)

I don't know if my porn works for my readers like it does for me because so far I don't have many readers and we tend to discuss the porn least of all.

This is one of the best things my betas do for me (besides, of course, fixing my stories, and especially my porn): they act as readers who discuss everything. Without their (multiple) reassurances that my porn is acceptably hot, I would never, ever be able to post it. (Or finish it. I have issues.)

I don't find it harder or easier to write than other stuff.

I am sick with envy. (Well, unless that means the other stuff is almost impossible to write, in which case, not so much. But otherwise: ENVY.)

[http://users.livejournal.com/solo____/]

There's not a (porny) story I've written that didn't have some kind of thing I'd like to read more of in it. And yet. If I've written it, it becomes, de facto, something I don't want to read more of.

This really puzzles me. To me, porn is really just like any other scenario I love in that respect. I try to make sure it works for me the way I want it to and usually, that means it does.

But this is probably the place to point out that I've maybe written two sex scenes so far which were actually meant to be hot, or at least have hot components. The others were... about something else. One works as 'hot' for me now, and I find that really disturbing, and when I go over the final draft I'll probably have to do something about that.

I write Epics That Must Not Be Read, and while they will never be read by anyone but me - oh god how I've learned my lesson on that - I re-read them for fun all the time, and I totally love them, even with their manifold flaws. But they aren't porny.

This really intrigues me (and worries me a little) because:
- why are they 'Must Not Be Read'? How do you know???? (Yes, I'm writing an epic, so... slight unease here.) Is it because they are epic?
- if you love them, how do you know somebody else wouldn't??

Most of what I write isn't porny, either, so maybe I was giving the wrong impression. I'm talking about something like 30,000 words total out of (currently) 325,000 or so.

This is one of the best things my betas do for me (besides, of course, fixing my stories, and especially my porn): they act as readers who discuss everything. Without their (multiple) reassurances that my porn is acceptably hot, I would never, ever be able to post it. (Or finish it. I have issues.)

Okay, my readers have reassured me that 'the sex scenes work', but that's not really what I call discussion. If they'd said they don't, we might have had more of a discussion - might have been a good thing! As it is, I don't know in what sense, or just how, they work for them; might be totally different from the way they work for me. The trouble there is also that there's so much else going on in those scenes that I'm usually more concerned about reader response to characterisation than to basic hotness, so that's what I'm more likely to ask about in excruciating detail.

But ... next time they appear, I will ask them retrospectively. I'm curious now. :-)

(Well, unless that means the other stuff is almost impossible to write, in which case, not so much. But otherwise: ENVY.)

I find all writing pretty hard. I go through about dozen drafts of a chapter or more before it's even fit to let anybody comment on it. But when it comes down to it, writing porn is really just about characterisation and choreography, just like any other scene. Well, IMO. Yes, it's intense, but so are scenes with arguments or battle scenes or angst angst angst... the most emotionally exhausting scene I've written in this epic of mine so far was a simple argument, and the thing I've found most difficult to get right was a simple reflective section - I got stuck on that for two months after my readers said it didn't work, and spent most of that time not knowing where on earth to even start fixing it. :-/

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

This really intrigues me (and worries me a little) because:
- why are they 'Must Not Be Read'? How do you know???? (Yes, I'm writing an epic, so... slight unease here.) Is it because they are epic?

Nononono, not at all! Epics are fine! My Epics That Must Not Be Read aren't fine because they - wait, I have another poll on this topic. It's here (http://thefourthvine.livejournal.com/63953.html). Basically, I know they Must Not Be Read because - well, take my Buffy one. It's a long AU in which things develop very differently than they did in the canon, in which I change major characters' life arcs in major ways, and I do it entirely to please me. It suits my wishes for the canon so well that there's no way of knowing if it's even remotely in character or canon at all. It's essentially gen id porn, or wishfic, and it veers along that uncomfortable edge between narrative and fantasy.

- if you love them, how do you know somebody else wouldn't??

I don't know for sure. But let's just say - okay. I sent another Epic That Must Not Be Read out to beta, because I didn't realize it was an ETMNBR. That experience was beyond humiliating, despite how incredibly kind they were. So, you know, having exposed my id to authors I love once, I'm unlikely to do it again.

I did, at one point, have a bet on with someone - um, minim_calibre - that I'd post the first (humongous) chapter of one of my ETMNBR if she'd do likewise. She didn't. So the world will never know of my Xander in Hell epic, or my John Sheppard as John Smith epic, or...well, it's for the best, really.

But my point is, it's got nothing to do epic size. Epic size is lovely. It's just when you get into ETMNBR territory that things get - well, shameful, if you're me.

As it is, I don't know in what sense, or just how, they work for them; might be totally different from the way they work for me.

Often it is. At least, what I expect to work in my stories sometimes is and sometimes isn't what actually does work for readers. And, of course, what works varies from reader to reader. Sometimes they love best stuff that I didn't even notice.

The trouble there is also that there's so much else going on in those scenes that I'm usually more concerned about reader response to characterisation than to basic hotness, so that's what I'm more likely to ask about in excruciating detail.

Grill your betas! It's what they're for! (Seriously. It's a big part of what we do when we beta-read: answer the writer's nine million questions.)

Yes, it's intense, but so are scenes with arguments or battle scenes or angst angst angst

Ah. See, I have problems with all those kinds of scenes; I'm definitely a "cold prickly" writer, and partly that's because I shy away from any kind of strong displays of emotion in my writing. Even if I do have an emotional scene, I am likely to tell it through the PoV of the most repressed, least emotionally intelligent person present.

What can I say? I have issues. This is why I mostly stick to other kinds of writing. *grins*

[http://users.livejournal.com/solo____/]

My Epics That Must Not Be Read aren't fine because they - wait, I have another poll on this topic. It's here.

Ah yes. I knew I remembered feeling this sinking feeling before. I read that post and responded; my comment was: "I've ticked 'Something else' for your second question. I am now eyeing my present project, which is certainly an epic, with great suspicion. Thank you for planting that idea in my head... I think." :-)

It's a long AU in which things develop very differently than they did in the canon, in which I change major characters' life arcs in major ways, and I do it entirely to please me. It suits my wishes for the canon so well that there's no way of knowing if it's even remotely in character or canon at all.

Um. Yeah, mine's an AU, too. *g* One canon point is different and it all moves on from there. But then, I always thought that was rather the point of AUs. And therefore, also, they no longer have to be 'in canon'. It's an alternate universe. ::shrugs; has no problem with this.::

As for 'in character', that's trickier, I admit. (Oh, my readers are going to love you when I tell them that you are the reason I'm going to be storming in their doors bleating "does the sex work? is it sexy? what about characterisation, does it still wooooork?" just when they thought I was ticking along nicely here.)

Xander in Hell sounds okay to me.

As for the cold prickly... I'm not really sure what kind of writer I am - it changes with the pov, I think, and it really has to; but I certainly tend to go for a toned-down approach when I can. I'm definitely a cold prickly reader, and you know, I'm getting really quite excited about the thought that there might be EPICS out there written in a cold pricky style....