thefourthvine | [Poll]: Where do we go from here?

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[poll]

[Poll]: Where do we go from here?

Okay, I've put this off long enough. (Hi, my name is TFV, and I'm totally change-phobic. I hold the regional title for hiding-head-in-sand, and am a certified expert in change denial. Need mentoring in the fine art of fearing change? I am here for you.)

Seems to me that, what with the ever-changing and quite confusing ToS on LJ, it's only reasonable for me to do something besides post all my content to LJ and just kind of hope I don't lose it. (Yes, I have backups, but not, at this time, a real offsite backup.) But, of course, I'm waffling on what I'm going to do. When in doubt, poll!

Also, every day I'm seeing deletions and departure notices, and I kind of want to figure out where everyone is going before you're all, you know, gone. I realize I'm too late to catch the first wave of LJ departures, so if any of you cross-post or do newsletter things or also journal on another service, I'd really appreciate a link. (This isn't just for people on my friends list, by the way. There are journals I read that I don't have friended, after all.) So, again, a poll seems like a good way to collect information.

I know people who don't have LJ accounts anymore - as in, deleted or suspended - can't actually take the poll. In that case, feel free to answer whichever questions you choose (including, ideally, the location of your journal-type content and your fanworks) in the comments. Anonymous commenting is on. If you can't do that, either, then feel free to email me. I want to know where you are!

It's probably getting really boring seeing polls like this all over your friends list. I'm sorry. But I don't want to lose my content or my community, so - well, I'd really appreciate it if you'd take mine. (If it makes you grouchy, there's an option in the poll to tell me to just quit LJing. Feel free to use it!)

[Poll #1050367]

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For the "In the near future, how can a recommendations source (like, you know, me) be of most use to you?" question, my "Other" answer is that I would keep reading your recs no matter where you went. :)

I myself have set up accounts at all the other sites but haven't really used any of them much. I think no matter what, I will continue using LJ in one form or another, because I bought myself a perm account a year or so back (ugh, before everything bad that has come after 6A took over started) so I will keep using up my allotted bandwidth until they pry it from my cold, dead fingers. But if I had to move somewhere else for fannish activities, I would.

Thank you!

I bought myself a perm account a year or so back (ugh, before everything bad that has come after 6A took over started) so I will keep using up my allotted bandwidth until they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Yeah, I got a permanent account, too, before all the 6A stuff happened, so I'll probably keep posting on LJ no matter where else I end up, at least until there's no more interest here. I figure, I paid for it, I'm damn well using it.

I'm with people above that I'd look for your recs wherever you went, and I think you should totally do whatever things would make you feel better and not get arrested and stuff. It makes me kind of sad that some people are leaving lj (I don't think anywhere else will be better, so it's kind of a IS THERE NO SAFE HARBOUR LEFT?! emo moment) but we will all survive. Fandom's pretty good at that. And I can offer, um, like, did-you-get-hit-on-the-head-as-a-child level customisation etc help! *beams winningly*

I think you should totally do whatever things would make you feel better and not get arrested and stuff.

Oh, I don't think I'll get arrested; I mean, linking may be against LJ policy these days (I guess), but it's not actually illegal. And I don't think I'll even get into trouble, let alone ToSed. I just realized, as the whole 6A mess was happening, that it was dumb of me to put all my content in one place and rely on a given company not to lose it (or delete it). So, yeah, I'll probably cross-post to another site or sites, just to as a backup kind of deal.

And I can offer, um, like, did-you-get-hit-on-the-head-as-a-child level customisation etc help! *beams winningly*

\o/!

I'm staying with LJ until if/when there's actually something better, which the alternatives right now definitely are not, IMO. If you went somewhere else, I'd be sad but I'd friend your RSS feed.

I do assume that sooner or later there will be something better, at which time moving will become the sensible choice, but the current alternatives at least act as a nice backup.

And I am not leaving LJ. I'm just, you know, being careful. *clings*

You've probably gotten a dozen offers already, but I'd be more than happy to set you up with a free JournalFen account if you'd like! *grin* It's my alternate of choice, just because it's run by fans for fans and there's no way in hell they'd ever delete fannish content (GJ and IJ, on the other hand, are still businesses). However, I'm sticking with LJ until they actually make me leave; I have too many years invested now, and I'd rather fight them to make them accept me than just walk away!

We will miss you if you go. *HUGS*

I think I have a line on a JF account, but I will let you know if the offer falls through. Thank you!

And I've got a permanent account, so I'm using my LJ bandwidth until they take it away from me (or there's no one left in fandom on LJ); I'm just thinking, some kind of backup is definitely indicated by the recent turns of events. (And I had heard a suggestion that people ought to stop recommending while fandom was in flux, which I thought was weird, but if it was prevailing fannish opinion, I was entirely prepared to hear it.)

*hugs back* I would miss y'all, too.

I seem to fall in solidly with the majority, so I'm not sure that I'll be of any help.

I've spoken of my fannish history, but to recap, I moved from meetings in living rooms to mimeographed fanzines to alt-rec-sf to Yahoo-groups but was bewildered by the Bronze and fell in love with the spiderweb, the commenting and friending and interconnectivity, of LJ.

I was one of those who paid for a perm account in a fit of optimism but I don't regret it. I've enjoyed my five and a half years on LJ, and I will stay behind, tracking people through mirror feeds or RSS as they move elsewhere. Should those people choose not to mirror or RSS, I will regretfully drop away, not out of any harshness towards them, but out of my own technophobia and unwillingness to devote more than a minimum effort toward chasing them down. I have email and phone numbers for teh people I cannot bear to walk away from, but much of my reading list is just that, and I doubt that the people who are likely to leave will miss me. LJ meets my own personal needs, though I fully respect and recognize the feelings of those who feel it does not meet theirs.

I do have, have run, and will continue to run LJarchive for my own archive/ backup purposes (my journal is not primarily fannish) because it captures comments and is relatively user friendly (recognizing that what I consider user friendly, most people would put on a level with "Don't Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus"). What of my fiction work Skyhawke can host, they do. I'm not prolific enough in any single fandom or in total to attempt to create accounts at two dozen different fannish archives in order to post one to five stories at each one. If there were a multi-fannish, multi-rating, non-invitation archive that would take me, I'd cheerfully move my library there. I do not know of one.

I was one of those who paid for a perm account in a fit of optimism but I don't regret it.

I did, too, and I kind of regret it, only because it places me in the category of user least likely to be heard by LJ: they've already gotten all the money they're getting from me. (Actually, that didn't used to be true, since I gave LJ time or icons away every month, but that isn't the kind of thing that's easily tracked.) But I'm still happy to have my permanent account.

I do have, have run, and will continue to run LJarchive for my own archive/ backup purposes (my journal is not primarily fannish) because it captures comments and is relatively user friendly (recognizing that what I consider user friendly, most people would put on a level with "Don't Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus").

I love LJarchive because it makes it easy for me to search my own LJ. So much easier than paging through each tab to see if I've rec'd a specific story, for example.

If there were a multi-fannish, multi-rating, non-invitation archive that would take me, I'd cheerfully move my library there.

*thoughtful*

It seems like there ought to be. Hmmm. The Archive at the End of the Universe?

(no subject)

jenna-thorn.livejournal.com - 2007-09-08 14:06 (UTC) - Expand

Please to continue using Delicious? Kthx!

I get a lot of recs off Delicious.

Del.icio.us is definitely the wave of the future for recommenders. But the text boxes are so teeny. See, this is why I think my recommending time might be over; I'm just not suitable for the new style.

My answer to how your recs would be most useful isn't really covered in your options, I don't think. I'm not invested in you posting only to LJ, but neither am I invested in you posting to only one place and mirroring. If you only post to one, I'd rather you pick LJ; I don't see myself leaving it any time soon, because the options are either shakier or no better, IMO. But if you do post to someplace other than LJ, I'd like to see it mirrored here, or at least available through an RSS feed.

Oh, I won't be leaving LJ - I mean, if fandom goes, I will, but as long as there's fandom here, I'll be here. I have a permanent account; I might as well use the bandwidth. And while my community is here, which it mostly is right now, I will be, too.

I know the "only" caused a lot of problems for people in the poll, and it's because I didn't phrase it as well as I should have. I wanted to give people an easy, safe way to say, "OMG please don't crosspost; you're already way too prolix." Because, you know, there have been complaints about the length of my posts lately, and I don't want to put people in a situation where they're facing my hideously long posts on more than one site.

Ah, well. It's always easy to figure out what the poll should've said after it's posted. This is why we do pilot studies, after all.

(no subject)

elynross.livejournal.com - 2007-09-10 17:18 (UTC) - Expand

since my choices for 1 & 2 are missing - I a crossposting on all 4 journals.

for people who have moved away (and I always plead with people to let us if they've moving away or if they are only cross-posting) I use FeedReader to read their locked entries.

FeedReader actually works for locked entries? YAY. This is excellent news, and I will have to try it out. Thank you!

I couldn't answer a couple of questions, because honestly, wherever you choose to post is what matters, and I will follow (although, I've set up alternate journals on only GJ and IJ, and frankly, I don't even look at those much. I can't keep up with all the different places, and to be honest, don't want to. It's just annoying to me that everyone I care about is choosing from among four or five different places, and it's a bit much for me).

And I can in no way help you with anything because I'm a lameass techwise, OMG.

I think I will likely be crossposting, and I'll definitely be here. This poll has helped me figure out where people are going to be (although one question I should have asked and didn't is: where do you plan to be reading a friends list in the near future?), and it seems like crossposting is the way to go.

I guess I'm going to try FeedReader or similar so I can keep up with my friends who have fled to the other places; I can't imagine trying to keep up with four separate friends lists. I mean, if it's all the same people, it shouldn't actually be any more effort, but it feels like it would be. So - FeedReader and crossposting, I guess.

It makes no difference to me where you post. I read you through my feedreader, NetNewsWire. So long as your content comes with an RSS feed I am happy.

I meant to ask: I just signed up for NetNewsWire. is there a way to pull all rss feeds into one readable thread? or create customized feed reading list: ex lim and vidder 1 and vidder 2 in one list. authors 1, 2 & 3 on another? right now I have to read everyone sep.

(no subject)

lim.livejournal.com - 2007-09-05 17:55 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

thefourthvine.livejournal.com - 2007-09-08 00:23 (UTC) - Expand

As an adaptable RSS-oriented person, I'll read your recommendations wherever you post them!

Thank you!

A recommendations source (like, you know, you) can be of most use to me by continuing to post, somewhere I can find you. Post wherever you're comfortable; believe me when I say that your recs are useful and enjoyable enough that if they cannot come to me (via RSS, flist, etc.), I will go to them!

Wow. Thank you! And all of my potential future options are available via RSS, so - well, you win the 'easy to please' reader prize.

*awards you imaginary trophy of considerable size and impressiveness*

I too am scared of change, it took me so long to figure out lj, and I really haven't used it to its full capacity, so moving is just too scary for me.

Also, I have a real life blog as well as this one, and there is no mass exodus over there (which is funny as my rl is maybe more fannish than my fan blog; just no porn there). I think it is more than I am able to contemplate keeping track of two blogs on two different sites.

But that's just me...

I too am scared of change, it took me so long to figure out lj, and I really haven't used it to its full capacity, so moving is just too scary for me.

I know! I feel like I just got here, and it took me so long to work up the nerve to sign up for a LJ OMG PANIC, and now things are changing. And I'm scared.

I think it is more than I am able to contemplate keeping track of two blogs on two different sites.

I couldn't even manage two LJs on the same site - at least, not and keep them separate and secret. It was just too much effort. So I completely sympathize; multiple journals on multiple sites sounds very, very hard.

I'm deeply dug in here on LJ. I won't be going anywhere unless the great majority of fandom ups and leaves and I find myself all alone, talking to my own echo.

I do have backup journals at GJ and IJ, but I'm currently using them only when LJ is down.

Change SUCKS.

I do have backup journals at GJ and IJ, but I'm currently using them only when LJ is down.

Which is another good reason for having backup journals that I hadn't considered. These days, I consider LJ going down as a sign that it's time to wash my dogs or something. (Although I remember when LJ went down while I was in the middle of reading a multi-part story. I clicked for the next chapter and nothing happened and I could not find out how things worked out for two whole days. Yes, this counts as a major trauma in my life. Am I not lucky?)

Change SUCKS.

So very much yes. I would buy a t-shirt with this on it. It is my whole philosophy of life, summed up in two words.

...Which is kind of depressing. But, well, I never claimed to have depths.

Here's the thing about your recs...they're cool and I'd hunt them down and read them wherever you posted, even if that means going somewhat out of my way to do so. If you don't want to waste all sorts of time mirroring everything everywhere, I'll just bookmark the place you decide to settle down and read them there.

(I'd leave LJ if there were one good LJ alternative that everyone is going to. Since that hasn't really happened yet, I'm letting inertia rule my path for the moment...)

Wow. Thank you!

I'd leave LJ if there were one good LJ alternative that everyone is going to.

Oh, yes. I assume, in time, this problem will resolve itself, and most of fandom will end up in one place again. But in the meantime, it's complicated and distressing and I miss people. Protracted change is the worst kind, I think.

I'm archiving at GreatestJournal under _minxy_, but there's something about mirroring all posts over there that doesn't appeal.

Thus, you (or anyone, really) will find my fanfiction and archive lists of recs for various characters or pairings. Eventually. I'm doing it in a really half-assed way, but that's my intention.

I'm archiving at GreatestJournal under _minxy_, but there's something about mirroring all posts over there that doesn't appeal.

Interesting. I'm particularly curious to see what other recommenders are going to do, because I get the sense that journal-based recommending is coming to the end of its era, and the replacement I see on the horizon pretty much won't work for me, not with the kind of recommending I do. So you're just crossposting your fanwork and resources?

This makes sense.

Frankly, I'm still kind of hesitant about the whole crossposting thing, but - well, we'll see how it goes. *crosses fingers*

Well, I'm staying here. New dog old tricks, or something like that. If everyone else leaves I'll just stay here on my own, grumbling.

If you stop posting on LJ I shall simply scream and scream until I am sick all over my journal and then you'll ALL BE SORRY!!

Or something.

HI!

No! No! I don't want that. I will continue to post on LJ. Just don't be sick all over your journal, please. Because - well, ew.

(Would being sick all over your journal translate into changing to one of those really hideous styles, and then customizing it so it's even more hideous and hard to read, and then making the default text 6-point handwriting font in bright yellow against a background of dark red? Because if so, god, no, anything but that.)

Another vote for "love your recs & will follow you... follow you wherever you may go... there isn't a server too weak... or TOS too restrictive to keep... keep me away!"

*ahem*

Though, that said: I didn't get into LJ for fandom. (No, actually, that's a lie, I did get into LJ for fandom, because at the time I had a Diaryland diary for other purposes. But then my RL friends, who previously had used DL or other blogging services -- and this was before we called 'em "blogs": they were "online journals" back in the day -- migrated to LJ, and the flist and other functions seduced me very thoroughly, and a year or so in, I gave up on fandom altogether, but kept LJ for personal blogging.) Most of my flist is not fandom-related. (Shocking, I know.) It would annoy me greatly if more of my fannish flist migrated without mirroring, because then I'd have to shift my rump and actually get a second journal somewhere, or a feed aggregator or something, and that's, like, effort. One of the things that I loved about LJ right from the start was that it made my life easier: the migration is not yet making it more difficult, but it might in future.

That said, I was into fandom before LJ. (I remember the days when the HPSlash mailing list on Egroups -- because this was before Yahoogroups! -- had 21 members. Yes, HP fandom was small once. Small enough that the very first Draco/Harry story ever ["Smash the Mirror" by Cathryn] was posted to the RareSlash list. Now I feel old.) I found ways then; I'll find a way now. It's going to be a pain in the ass whatever happens, even if the only substantial impact is a lot of bitching and paranoia, and I think we've already passed that stage. *sigh* Farewell to convenience...

"love your recs & will follow you... follow you wherever you may go... there isn't a server too weak... or TOS too restrictive to keep... keep me away!"

Awww. *blushes* *secretly turns up volume*

It would annoy me greatly if more of my fannish flist migrated without mirroring, because then I'd have to shift my rump and actually get a second journal somewhere, or a feed aggregator or something, and that's, like, effort.

I know! Change leads to complication. This is yet more proof that change is inherently bad. As if we needed any.

But I am going to be making some trial runs of various feed aggregators. Because I am just that brave.

Farewell to convenience.

*sniffles*

Oh, convenience. I loved you well. You will be missed. But I am hoping one of the feed readers will bring you back to me in a glorious new form. (Hmm. Does that make convenience undead or an angel? Well, I guess I'll find out. Like, if it's kind of convenient but really slow, then I'll know it's zombie convenience, but if it's shiny and bright and - good, I guess? - then I'll know it's the angel of convenience come to be with me forever. ...And it's possible I am now thoroughly overinvested in this metaphor and mental image and should stop this comment now before things get even worse.)

I am not the beta tester. I am the omega tester. If like, everyone I know leaves LJ, I will probably wait a year or two and then follow them. I can't be arsed to keep up, frankly.

I hear you. I am not precisely the queen of early adopters, either, in part because it takes this household at least a year to commit to buying anything. (And even more if it requires going to an actual store somewhere. We're, um, not big fans of shopping.)

But I think I'll be here as long as fandom is, and when my part of fandom goes somewhere else, so will I. The hard part is the in between time right now, when part of my part of fandom is gone and the other part is still here.

Change. Why does it have to be change?

(no subject)

vito-excalibur.livejournal.com - 2007-09-09 16:54 (UTC) - Expand

I'm sticking around LJ (all my RL friends who don't, y'know, deal in porn are staying) and cross-posting to IJ. I'm totally technologically deficient, so I can't offer much help to you in any way, but I'll simply second others and say - do what you want, we'll find your content.

Thank you! But, in fact, I will not be hard to find, since I'll still be here, wherever else I am. (I have a permanent account. I might as well use their bandwidth.)

I read you when I skim SGA Noticeboard's friendslist, almost always opening your entries in a separate tab for a more leisurely perusal.

After the appalling way LJ has treated its customers over the past several months, I can't regard this as a permanent home anymore. In the short term, I'm very fond of InsaneJournal, and am mirroring entries there because the owner has been incredibly responsive and provided *magnificent* customer service as a deluge of new accounts and server stress were created. In the long term, I've hopes of one of the new fannish-run journalling projects coming to fruition, with common ownership of some sort to avoid future turmoil.

RSS feeds have become less mysterious to me lately, so I'm certain I'll be able to keep track of the people I want to stalk (in the most benign way possible) no matter what.

After the appalling way LJ has treated its customers over the past several months, I can't regard this as a permanent home anymore.

Yeah. Most definitely yes. 6A seems determined to tear down LJ and rebuild it, and while that's their right, I don't think the rebuild is going to include, you know, me.

I'm going to test out crossposting to IJ and GJ next time I, you know, post something. Wish me luck!

I'm probably over complacent, because I doubt anyone will come looking to TOSs me until every other fanwriter in the universe has been shown the door. So I'm sticking with LJ for now, but keeping an eye out and considering a possible move eventually.

Where you post: as long as I know where it is, you can post wherever you like -- not "only LJ," or "instead of LJ;" any location can be accomodated!

I'm useless with webthingies, but I'm good at hand-holding.

I doubt anyone will come looking to TOSs me until every other fanwriter in the universe has been shown the door

I'm not worried about being ToSed, either. But the link-unfriendly policy worries me in principle, because linking is, you know, what I do. My real problem, though, is that the fans who do have more reason to worry about being ToSed - like DCU fandom, which I follow - are already leaving. So I'm more worried about losing my community than losing my LJ.

Although this has certainly served as an excellent reminder to, you know, not trust any one bunch of servers.

I was crossposting for a couple of weeks, and then I got overwhelmed and stopped. I have a vague-ish intention of picking up and moving somewhere that can support us as well as LJ's infrastructure whenever that comes to pass...but I don't want to risk our community-at-large falling apart by migrating somewhere that can't sustain us. (It's like a landgrab in a region with a limited water supply.) I'm still really angry and disgusted with 6A, but some weird mix of entropy and caution (plus the fact that this is where the majority of my friends are) is keeping me here on LJ first and everywhere else as an afterthought.

I was crossposting for a couple of weeks, and then I got overwhelmed and stopped.

Oh, interesting. Do you mind if I ask what was overwhelming about it? I like to be able to anticipate trouble.

I have a vague-ish intention of picking up and moving somewhere that can support us as well as LJ's infrastructure whenever that comes to pass...but I don't want to risk our community-at-large falling apart by migrating somewhere that can't sustain us.

That's an excellent summary of the essence of the problem right there. I mean, I'd love to leave LJ for somewhere better and more reliable, but where is the better place? Until I find it - or, to be more exact, until braver and better fans find it and spread the news - I'll be crossposting (or trying to), keeping my options open, and hoping.

*hopes*

In the near future, how can a recommendations source (like, you know, me) be of most use to you?

I skipped this question because none of the provided answers fit. In the near future, you can be of most use to me by posting to LJ (and I don't care if you crosspost) or by posting somewhere that has a feed I can read on LJ.

~

Re websites, I suspect other people have made this offer already, but I'm on Dreamhost and I can set you up with www.thefourthvine.org for the cost of the domain name (which I think is $10/yr) or thefourthvine.greekedtext.org for free. (Or something other than thefourthvine if you prefer, of course.) Or I can give you a $97 coupon for you to get your own DH account.

If you do set up a website, you need to decide if you're a) hand-coding everything [not recommended], b) coding everything with a wysiwyg application on your computer, or c) using WordPress or some other CMS [content management system]. DH has one-click installs for WordPress and a few other CMSes, meaning you can start using them with no knowlege whatsoever. I have some experience with wrestling with WP to make it do what I want.

I'm setting myself up a website later this month (just working on the name), and would be happy to host you there, set up a blog for you with Wordpress embedded, and copy your content there as well.

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