[Poll] Things That Are Normal

[thefourthvine]

Earlier this year, I posted about the LA Conscious Life Expo, which I hope to god someone is attending and liveblogging. (Someone not leading a conscious life, obviously, since those people will presumably be ascending and whatnot and thus not really reliable recorders.) And misspamela said, in response to my discussion of the free magazines available at our local diner (mostly on the themes of Cocks Are Awesome, Marijuana Is Awesome, and I Hear Shiny Lights in My Pancreas), "Oh, California."

I stared at that comment for quite a while before asking her what, precisely, was so California about that. I mean - these are normal magazines! Right? And after she wiped away the tears of laughter, she said, basically, that everything was. Apparently the free magazines out in her neck of the woods are on - the woods or something. I don't know. What do you write a free magazine about if it's not semi-hysterical political ranting, cocksucking, semi-legal drugs, or the way your consciousness is currently in orbit around Saturn? (Without the benefit of the cocksucking or the semi-legal drugs, I mean.)

Since then, I have spent a certain amount of time analyzing my experiences in that diner, asking myself if something that seems normal to me is actually normal, or just very California. (Always keeping in mind that there are very conservative areas of CA, too. I just don't live in one. Nor do I live in the most liberal area, I might just mention.) I mean, the free magazines within reach of a small child that feature Adam Lambert and mostly naked men in bondage gear pretending to go down on each other - normal? Or California normal? I don't know. I've lived here too long. I mean, obviously I find it normal - I let my kid carry around those magazines, and everyone in the diner, including the old people, thinks it's cute. (We go there not just because we like the food but because everyone likes the earthling.) No one has suggested he's going to be warped, not even by the one that simultaneously showcased men in bondage gear (bondage gear is something of a feature of this particular magazine) and Disney characters. But maybe that would be weird somewhere else. Hard to say.

Recently, at another visit to this diner (where I picked up a catalog of this year's Conscious Life Expo, and I tell you what: I yearn to attend this thing, because I want to know if these people make any more sense when they're speaking as opposed to writing), I overheard a conversation between four guys at a nearby table. These were middle-aged guys, maybe in their forties, of various races, and at least one of them was a blue collar worker (judging by an earlier conversation). It's always nice to hear what the other half thinks, hence the shameless eavesdropping. Their conversation turned, in short order, to two major news stories of the day. The first was gays in the military, and keep in mind as you read this that the guys were fairly obviously censoring their speech because of the presence of a small earthling who kept looking over to see what food they had. (If they had heard how one of his mothers talks, they might have been less concerned.)

Guy 1: You know, it's the emotional intimacy I worry about.
Guy 2: Hmmm?
Guy 1: In the Navy. You're out there on those boats for a long time. All packed in close together, doing stuff together. You can't tell me they won't get attached to each other. Involved.
Guy 3: Yeah. I see that.
Guy 4: Now, in combat.
Guy 1: Can't really see any problem there.
Guy 4: It's all crazy. They do it anyway.
Guy 1, nodding vigorously: It's really just the Navy I think is gonna have a problem. With the romance and so on. The rest of it, that's just normal.
Guy 4: Exactly. I mean, if you're gonna go to Afghanistan or Iraq, well...

(When I related this conversation to BB later on, she said, "So they're fine with blowjobs. They just don't want the people involved to like each other?" I was more interested in the part of the sentence Guy 4 elided. Is there any way to interpret that other than, "If you're going to Afghanistan or Iraq, you might as well suck some cock while you're there?")

A few minutes of fascinated listening later, the conversation moved on to some propositions on our latest ballot, one of which involves legalizing marijuana.

Guy 2: I've gotta vote to legalize.
Guy 3: They've done studies. You know, which is the most harmful: alcohol, pot, tobacco. And it's not pot, let me tell you.
Guy 1: If tobacco's legal, marijuana's gotta be.
Guy 4: Yeah. Can't really see it's an issue, there.

So I pondered this on the way home. Is it normal - like, everywhere normal - to have middle-aged men talking about what amounts to military slash (because they aren't really talking about the gay sex - they're talking about the emotional connection involved in the gay sex) and advocating the legalization of pot? Or is that just where I live?

Poll #4811 How we do it in California

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 308

View Respondents

What do you think about those conversations, between those guys?

View Answers

Normal for California.
247 (85.8%)

Normal for the entire US.
14 (4.9%)

Normal for Canada.
70 (24.3%)

Normal for Mexico.
1 (0.3%)

Normal for South America.
1 (0.3%)

Normal for Africa.
1 (0.3%)

Normal for Europe.
55 (19.1%)

Normal for Asia.
2 (0.7%)

Normal for Australia and NZ.
23 (8.0%)

Normal for Antarctica.
15 (5.2%)

Normal for somewhere not covered by these categories. Mars, for example.
56 (19.4%)

Not normal for anywhere. Those were just some weird dudes.
14 (4.9%)

If you overheard similar men having a discussion of gays in the military and the legalization of marijuana in the town where you live, you'd expect them to say:

View Answers

ROCK ON with the gays in the military and the legalization of marijuana!
60 (20.0%)

These are relatively acceptable things, with reservations.
100 (33.3%)

Not okay.
20 (6.7%)

God damn those liberal pink-ass commies, ruining our fine nation.
46 (15.3%)

I cannot imagine people who live here having a conversation like that.
46 (15.3%)

Locals are more nuanced than your restrictive poll options. To the comments!
28 (9.3%)

While we're on the topic, what are the free magazines in your area like?

View Answers

We Love Buttfucking Monthly
53 (17.5%)

Stoned off Our Asses and Lovin' It!
65 (21.5%)

GOD DAMN THE MOTHERFUCKING GOVERNMENT
94 (31.0%)

I Can Remotely Adjust Your Hypothalamus. Because the Aliens Showed Me How.
57 (18.8%)

Actual Real Reportage and Stuff, Just Like a Magazine You'd Pay Money For
108 (35.6%)

90% Classifieds and Personals
226 (74.6%)

We have other free magazines in my area. I will educate you in the comments.
65 (21.5%)

We don't have free print magazines where I am. You PAY for your dead trees in these parts.
32 (10.6%)

Comments

[nextian]

I am unqualified to vote on any of the other options. But that sure as heck sounds like California to me.

[thefourthvine]

Your icon just about killed me. I love it so.

And, yeah. California, right here. Well, there has to be some compensation for the housing prices, right?

[damned_colonial]

Ha ha, I'm in SF, so it's all buttfucking and bonghits here. Sorry, not so useful for your survey.

ETA: Actually, now I think of it, the last thing I read in one of those free papers was this lengthy expose on the evilness of the company that runs Farmville. So, um, make that buttfucking, bonghits, and dotcom wank.

[thefourthvine]

...I knew something was up with Farmville. (My mother's addiction is of family-wide concern.)

And, hey, buttfucking and bong hits are perfectly useful data points! Although I admit I pretty much already knew that about SF. *loves the northern types to bits*

[dine]

depending on the diner, that could be a very normal conversation to overhear in a group like that here as well - it would fit in just fine at my fave place, but there are plenty of others where it wouldn't fly at all

'guides' to escorts/strippers are very popular (supposedly, PDX has the most strip clubs per capita of anywhere in the US)

[thefourthvine]

...More than Vegas? Because, wow. That is a statistic to be proud of.

[vector]

I have very much the same perspective issues, having grown up in California. Seattle (where I am now) is not quite to the level of, say, Berkeley, but it's in the same arena, which is nice. I definitely wouldn't say it's a whole-US thing though, and I can't speak for the other areas.

[thefourthvine]

It appears to be a west coast thing for sure, though. It's the Pacific. It influences us all. *g*

[lilacsigil]

In my area of Australia we have a lot of tourists (see icon, because that's what the tourists do!) so there's lots of free magazines for them, talking about all the lovely things here that AREN'T the Twelves Apostles (subtext: dammit, please spend your money here and don't just drive straight back to Melbourne!) In Melbourne, there's all the free mags you describe in your poll. But I don't live there.

[thefourthvine]

Oh, tourist magazines! I had completely forgotten about those, because you don't see them in most of the places I go. We have a LOT of those. The "don't just go to Disneyland ones" could fill - well, a normal-sized car, maybe.

[bossymarmalade]

Maybe it's a West Coast thing? Because this sounds a helluva lot like the metropolitan areas of British Columbia, I tell you whut.

[thefourthvine]

My current working theory is that it's proximity to the Pacific Ocean. (Although it may be just oceans, period.) You know the Pacific, all liberal except when it's trying to kill you.

[yasaman]

As a fellow Californian, I feel unqualified to remark on that conversation's relative normalcy elsewhere. But yes, I have definitely found that California's normal is not everywhere else's normal. Sometimes it's things like our ridiculous reaction to weather that remind me: raining for three days? WHEN WILL WE SEE THE SUN AGAIN OH GOD BE CAREFUL ON THE ROADS RAIN IS SO DANGEROUS ALERT ALERT IT HAS RAINED .10 INCHES TODAY ;_______; Other times, I am just as clueless as you about what's actually normal and what's California normal.

[nextian]

But it's sixty degrees, Yasmin. No one can live at that temperature. We will all freeze to death and our tans will disappear!

[jmtorres]

I suspect more random groups of men are pro legalization of pot than pro gays in the military. Geographic data: arizona.

[jumpuphigh]

I admit to some gleefulness when I saw the medical marijuana Prop on my ballot. :D

[epershand]

Er, I grew up in the part of California where everyone is actively worried that legalizing pot will drive down the prices and destroy everyone's income. And now I live in San Francisco. So really, no value to be added to the survey.

ETA I just went back and read your post about the Conscious Life conference and it reminds me of (a) the environment I grew up in (b) the Dowsing conference I inadvertently experienced in Santa Cruz and (c) the summer in college I spent working for a sound healing company. Sigh.

[thefourthvine]

Er, I grew up in the part of California where everyone is actively worried that legalizing pot will drive down the prices and destroy everyone's income.

Did you see the one LA Times poll about how legalizing pot here won't cut into the cartels' incomes much because Californians prefer to grow their own? I giggled for a while over that one, I admit.

[moonpuppy]

I would have expected to hear this very same conversation in Portland, Oregon or Denver, Colorado. Not, mind you, in Stockton, California - the armpit of CA. I saw the best free magazines in Tattered Cover in LoDo in Denver. Here? Trucks. Trucks. Tractors. And trucks. And men don't have those kind of conversations. They talk about - you guessed it - trucks.

[thefourthvine]

Yeah, no, not Stockton. That's - a different place.

Here? Trucks. Trucks. Tractors. And trucks. And men don't have those kind of conversations. They talk about - you guessed it - trucks.

And while this must make posting difficult - I mean, there are only so many amusing truck conversations you can overhear - I can't help but think that my son would be in HEAVEN there. Although he is, in fact, two. I like to hope that adult men are a little more nuanced than two-year-olds.

[kindkit]

When I visited California last year, it definitely felt different from anywhere I'd been before. Admittedly I was in LA, and in fact I was staying in Burbank near the TV studios, so it seemed like everywhere I went I heard industry chitchat.

I can't quite picture the "gays in the military" conversation happening anywhere I've lived, and I've spent my adult life in fairly liberal cities (Minneapolis, Washington DC).

On the other hand, I now live in Santa Fe, where "I can remotely adjust your hypothalamus" is not only the subject of a zillion magazines, but all too frequent as diner conversation.

[thefourthvine]

Admittedly I was in LA, and in fact I was staying in Burbank near the TV studios, so it seemed like everywhere I went I heard industry chitchat.

That's not just in Burbank. Everyone here has a film script. Except for the guys at the next table grimly sorting through 3000 headshots. It's just - you know, a local industry. A really big one.

On the other hand, I now live in Santa Fe, where "I can remotely adjust your hypothalamus" is not only the subject of a zillion magazines, but all too frequent as diner conversation

DON'T GO TO TAOS. Not until you've - acclimated a bit to Santa Fe. I really mean this.

(BB tends to get things like free aura adjustments from pleased patrons of her library. It's - you know. A thing we do here.)

[vito_excalibur]

WHY is there no ticky box for "TFV makes me laugh my ass off and makes every day better and I ♥ her?" This poll: incomplete!

[jumpuphigh]

Seriously. I giggled through the entire post and now my cheeks hurt.

[tevere]

HMMMM.

Depends, depends. Melbourne is a big, diverse city. The area in which I live is socioeconomically mixed, but being pressured by yuppiedom and alterna-hipsterdom from the south. I'd say that the general trend of my area, projecting into the next decade or so, is towards upper-middle class white people who're into organic gardening, and who at one stage in their lives thought of themselves as pretty left of mainstream. (At the moment it's about half those kinds of people, and half elderly first-generation immigrants of Italian and Middle Eastern backgrounds.)

Hence, I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear your conversation #2 regarding marijuana in this area.

I would be semi-surprised to hear conversation #1, but only because our military accepts gays and lesbians.

There are all sorts of free magazines. The ones I'm most familiar with are the free gig guides and the ones you find on the steps of art galleries-- a couple of student-written articles about art, and a bit of advertising.

[thefourthvine]

Well, I admit I was totally ignoring big swathes of the Greater Metropolitan Area, because, yeah, complicated city here.

The ones I'm most familiar with are the free gig guides and the ones you find on the steps of art galleries-- a couple of student-written articles about art, and a bit of advertising.

Music tends to be covered here by the Almost Like Real Press free magazines - LA Weekl and so on. I don't see too many that are JUST music, though.

[copracat]

In my area (major metropolitan, inner city) free press includes: LGBT press (politics, local stuff, we love cocks), music press (very long gig guides with some interviews, also we will interview you if you buy advertising - we have TWO of these and a pretty vibrant live music scene), health and well-being press (generally not shiny pancreas visitors, mostly short, obvious articles supported by A LOT of advertising for naturopaths, chiropractors and natural health clinics. And rainbow dream catchers) and the occasional fashion press start up that lasts one issue by enthusiastic young design graduates with money and no sense, who soon either change careers or get into pro journalism.

Edit: LOL! I live in the same city as tevere and the same state as lilacsigil. Well, it is afternoon here in the antipodes.

[thefourthvine]

health and well-being press (generally not shiny pancreas visitors, mostly short, obvious articles supported by A LOT of advertising for naturopaths, chiropractors and natural health clinics. And rainbow dream catchers)

We have several of these, which veer from the shiny pancreas type to yoga and veganism to it's really better for you to eat whole foods, so let's talk about growing tomatoes.

Edit: LOL! I live in the same city as tevere and the same state as lilacsigil. Well, it is afternoon here in the antipodes.

And notice how many other commenters are from CA. My time zone friends!

[melannen]

The free magazines you get in random restaurants around here, at least the ones that aren't all ads, are generally about sailing, house prices and home renovation, things to do in the area that don't involve sailing, sailing, and local wine and produce. (I bet you can't guess from that where I live!)


The conversation - it would not strike me as amazingly unusual to hear that conversation, but I would be equally unsurprised to hear men of the same general demographic range talking about how God hates gay people and marijuana causes schizophrenia. (Although age would be a major factor - blue-collar men over 50, I would be shocked to hear the gay romance, pro-marijuana conversation; blue collar men in their 20s and 30s, I would be much less surprised. 40s hits right on the cusp.)

[thefourthvine]

I bet you can't guess from that where I live!

Well, see, I live in California. Which is kind of like - okay. When I was in fourth grade, and my parents told me we were going to move to New Mexico, I assumed it was a city in California even though I knew it was a state. It's just - you grow up here, you assume a) everything is in California and b) it's impossible to live anywhere else. (When I was growing up, the schools did an excellent job of reinforcing that by teaching California history and California geography and waiting on the rest of the world until - well, after we moved, anyway.)

So my California instincts say you're in Napa. But I'm guessing not, judging by your demographic analysis. (Around here, most of our men over 50 went through the sixties talking to God through the magic of experimental hallucinogens, so they're really unlikely to believe marijuana causes schizophrenia.) So I can only guess you're somewhere on a coast. Maybe the northeast?

[starlady]

I live in Berkeley, so all the diners I know of are vegetarian or vegan, and I'm totally skewing your survey. But yeah, none of this is particularly normal for anywhere else I've lived or visited regularly, with the possible exception of a very few neighborhoods in New York or Philadelphia.

[msilverstar]

Me too!

[alethia]

I live in the den of ridiculousness that is Hollywood, so can't help with the CA-normal vs. anywhere else-normal, but that conversation on gays in the military is THE BEST EVER. See, the gay shit, that's all fine - blowjobs for everybody! - but feelings?! Now that's just not on.

::dies laughing::

Is there any way to interpret that other than, "If you're going to Afghanistan or Iraq, you might as well suck some cock while you're there?"

Not really, no, but that's part of the brilliance! Hey, it's war; all's fair. Heh.

Also, I do kind of love that they single out the Navy specifically.

[azurelunatic]

In the Navy, you can sail the seven seas...

[athenejen]

Okay! Having lived in two very different parts of CA, one of the most liberal cities in the Upper Midwest, a very liberal city on the East Coast, and having just last year moved from the more conservative area of CA I was living in to what is by all accounts the most liberal city in Texas, I feel that I can say with authority that that conversation and those free magazines are SO VERY CALIFORNIA. I mean, I live in the metro area of the most California-like place in Texas, so while I wouldn't be shocked at similar men in a diner having that conversation, I would still be a little surprised (and I would be completely unsurprised if they expressed the opposite viewpoints... okay maybe in the city proper I might be a little surprised but not in the suburbs). And if I drove even a hour away, I'd probably be close to shocked. It is my understanding that significant parts of the country are like that. Most of the other places I've lived are more like California, but still not quite to that extreme.

Other free magazines: The Onion! And the alternative weekly or whatever you want to call it, indie rock and local events and whatnot.

[thefourthvine]

I feel that I can say with authority that that conversation and those free magazines are SO VERY CALIFORNIA.

I will bow to your superior expertise! (Seriously, it's like you planned your life so you could answer this question.) Although I don't know if I'd feel at home anywhere that didn't have at least a COUPLE whackmobile publications.

(Also, I'm guessing you live in Austin? It's the only liberal city I can think of in TX.)

[abyssinia]

Before you vote, just be warned that marijuana legalization will affect the content of said magazines! When they legalized medical marijuana here (my town now has enough MMJ dispensaries to, well, keep all of us high forever. Something ridiculous like one for every hundred people) suddenly instead of pages and pages of sex ads in the back of the free newspapers we have pages and pages of MMJ ads.

I am honestly not sure if this is an improvement or not.

[blackletter]

But on the up side, the prop, if it passes, will be one of the best things to happen for Sequoia National Park in *years*! 'Cause we spend millions of dollars combating illegal pot agriculture in the park. Because the pot plots, in addition to being illegal, are *horrible* for the ecosystem and dangerous for hikers and employees since the growers are given shotguns and told to defend the grove with their life.

[ursamajor]

I grew up in Berkeley, so I would hear/read more of the pot stuff in their free papers, and more of the cocks stuff when I'd venture into the City. When I moved to the Pioneer Valley for college, it was all available in the Valley Advocate and in any coffeehouse in the area. Now that I'm in Boston, there's less pot advocacy, but still a fair amount of sex-positive stuff in our free papers/magazines. But there's a lot more general event-promotion than anything else. A couple of the free papers try to do more in-depth reporting; sometimes it works, and sometimes it's just a Freelancer with a Grudge.

Also, I just got back from Toronto, and we were flipping through one of the free papers at the coffeeshop, and the sheer complexity and explicitness of the adult classifieds was amazing and wonderful and I feel like Mark Morford would have a perfect 1000-word gleegasm over their existence.

[thefourthvine]

A couple of the free papers try to do more in-depth reporting; sometimes it works, and sometimes it's just a Freelancer with a Grudge.

Yeah. We seem to have some of that, as well. But then, I suppose you get Freelancers with Grudges anywhere there's a printing press.

Also, I just got back from Toronto, and we were flipping through one of the free papers at the coffeeshop, and the sheer complexity and explicitness of the adult classifieds was amazing and wonderful and I feel like Mark Morford would have a perfect 1000-word gleegasm over their existence.

Awww. Now I want someone from Toronto to send me a free paper! I need to appreciate this.

I must know someone in Toronto. Hmmm.

[blackletter]

I answered that the conversation/free mags are So Californian. And not what I'd see/hear locally. Even though I live in California. Because I live in the Central Valley, which might as well be a different nation from the coast. Here we get billboards about how the US needs to leave the UN, "God Saves" (to which I think, "What? Pennies for a rainy day?), and a ballot that does not offer a non-Republican option for US House Representative.

*sigh* I miss SF.

[jeez_louise]

Wow, and I thought I had it bad living in Orange County (or behind the Orange Curtain as my commie pinko Uncle says.) I sympathize, and would like to say, I too miss San Francisco. Tony Bennett isn't the only one who left his heart there. /dork.

[red_eft]

Reading this has reminded me how *extremely* Californian my family is. (My mother would totally attend the Conscious Life expo. In fact, I would not be surprised to hear that she *is* attending it. If so, I will have her take notes.)

[thefourthvine]

OMG please do! Seriously, I dream of attending the Conscious Life Expo. It does my heart no end of good to know that it even exists.

[mimesere]

It's even like that here behind the Orange Curtain.

[thefourthvine]

*waves to you from the Other Side*

Really? It does me good to know that, because I feel sure the Orange Curtain was intended to preserve the morality and conservatism of your side. And yet. California wins again!

[monkey5s]

I just have to say, in my smalltownOhio location, the only "free magazines" are really just free newsprint rags, choked with ads. Or, you know, completely ads, like the real estate sales "magazines" or the car ads.

And, since the electorate of my state showed their tiny minds by amending the state's constitution to prevent gay marriage, gay ANYTHING is simply. not. discussed.

Legalizing pot would be a dream come true for a large demographic, though. I, personally, wish they would allow hemp to be grown, so that I can (selfishly) have affordable hemp clothing.

[sofiaviolet]

Hemp, yes! My sister does not much care about pot but she wants to move to the woods and build a house directly out of trees and then grow some damn hemp.

[macey]

also, I object to the 'europe' choice! because if I were in, say, france, or sweden, or ahaha holland, it would be common! germany, switzerland, or england, not so much! we are not really with the sameness.

[neery]

Actually, in my part of Germany, lots of guys seem to be in favor of legalizing pot, and while I've never heard anyone at all discussing the topic of gays in our military, most people seem to not particularly care that our foreign minister is representing Germany while gay. So I actually wouldn't be surprised by that kind of conversation at all.