thefourthvine: Two people fucking, rearview: sex is the universal fandom. (Default)
Keep Hoping Machine Running ([personal profile] thefourthvine) wrote2009-11-03 02:18 pm

[Poll] Tuesday in the Park with the Earthling. And Strangers.

Ever since I realized, back in college, that I was dropping social cues with the kind of consistency most people reserve for breathing, I have maintained two mental lists, and I spend at least a small part of every day going over them: Social Cues Dropped (But at Least, in Retrospect, I Know What I Was Supposed to Do or Say) and Social Clues Dropped (No Clue What Should Have Happened.) I am pleased to say that the second list is generally shorter these days than it used to be. (The other one is much, much longer. But this post is not about my oddities.)

There is also a third mental list that I update less frequently. It is probably best titled simply WTF?, although I think of it as Other People's Mistakes.

Today, I had an interaction that I am tentatively slotting into the third category, but I'd like your opinion on it.

Because of an unexpected appointment cancellation, I took the earthling to the park rather later than is usual. After some time on the swings and the playset, the earthling went into climb-every-mountain mode and began slogging up the highest hill in the park.

At the top of that hill is a stone bench and table. When we got there, there was a man, middle-aged and normal looking, sitting on the bench, and a dog, one of those big silky collies that always look dignified even when they are running into trees, sitting at his feet. (This one did not, while I watched, run into a tree, but I will never forget seeing a collie do that. It changed my view of them forever.) When we got near the bench, the earthing experienced summit sadness and began refusing to go in any direction that was not further up, which was problematic, since we were as high as we could go. Observing me negotiating with the earthling, the normal (looking) man leaned over and said to me, thoughtfully:

"You know, I think my dog is the love of my life."

"Yes, dogs are wonderful," I said, most of my mind on the earthling.

"I've never felt this way about anyone else," he said.

"They're really wonderful," I agreed, starting to feel like I was joining a conversation already in progress.

"She's sure better than any woman," he said, sort of chuckling. Then he paused, and in a low, more personal tone added, "Or any man."

"...Oh?" I said.

"I really do love this dog. I mean love this dog," he continued. "People can't understand that, but it is what it is and I don't regret it." He paused for a second, then added, "I just wish people were open-minded. That's what I always say: keep an open mind."

"That's, um, nice. You have a good day, now," I said, and scooped up the earthling and carried him, protesting vigorously, toward the car.

So, my question to you people is: was that as weird as it felt at the time? And if so, when did it go off the rails?

[Poll #1480467]

[identity profile] kellyfaboo.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 01:34 am (UTC)(link)
Really the whole conversation was definitely odd -- and increasingly so -- right up until that last bit where it went straight to WTF don't make me call the ASPCA-ville.

[identity profile] hyperfocused.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 01:43 am (UTC)(link)
The term "barking mad" comes to mind.

And really, the only way it might have been salvageable would have been if his second utterance had been "Not that way, of course, hahaha." or words to that effect.
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[identity profile] vito-excalibur.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 03:52 am (UTC)(link)
No no, that would just have moved the creepiness up. D:

[identity profile] fanofall.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 01:48 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, on the upside: That wasn't about you missing social cues. HE'S JUST FREAKING WEIRD.

[identity profile] tartanshell.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 02:16 am (UTC)(link)
Wow. I am having to work hard not to make the obvious joke about doggie style. *cough*

Though, re-reading this conversation, I wonder if the guy was, in fact, having a different conversation. Maybe he was batshit, but maybe he just got divorced because his wife cheated on him (that would explain the "or any man," sort of) and has found solace (not THAT way) in his dog. Maybe he takes her everywhere and buys her Christmas presents and says she's the only companionship he needs, and his friends or family are urging him to date, but he's soured on human relationships and just likes spending time with his dog.

...Or not. He's probably doing the Collie. But it's nice to think that maybe he's just a guy who loves his dog a lot in a less-disturbing way.
ext_975: photo of a woof (Default)

[identity profile] springwoof.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 03:08 am (UTC)(link)
see, I really really love dogs in general and my dogs in particular. But that guy was strongly implying something that was all about him being a sicko and not at all about truly loving the dog (in the "do what's best for the animal" truly loving kind of way). You didn't miss the boat. That conversation went beyond strange. I'm glad you got the Earthling outta there!

Dog people can be very strange, though (I include myself here). I remember a conversation where a young guy friend of ours eagerly described the really beautiful Golden Retriever he'd seen while he was walking his Lab, Wally. "Wally really liked her," he told us. "Her name was Ginger and she was two years old and really well-mannered!" We asked about the fabulous Ginger's owner, thinking we might know them. "Uh, it was some woman, I think," he muttered. He suddenly looked completely freaked out. "Now I know I'm a dog person," he said. "I remember every detail about Ginger, but I have only a really vague memory of Ginger's person--I think it was a woman." Since we know several people only through their dogs--Sparky's Dad, Ellie's Mom, Fozzie's kids (we're not totally without couth, we always ASK if we can pet the dogs first, and we always exchange names...we just usually...forget the people's names)--we didn't think this was odd at all....
juliet: Head-shot of my dog, Finlay (finlay head)

[personal profile] juliet 2009-11-04 07:12 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, god, yeah, I recognise the dogs that Finlay & I regularly encounter round the park (especially That Lovely Black Lab Who He Totally Does Not Get On With) far more than their people. I'd probably recognise the dogs if they were round the park on their own; suspect I wouldn't have a hope in hell with the person.

Anyway! Starting a conversation talking about yr dog: not so weird (I regularly start conversations in the park with discussion of either my dog or their dog), but in context, that conversation definitely went off the rails from the get-go.

[identity profile] carta.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 03:22 am (UTC)(link)
That conversation was so not what I expected your question/poll to be about. Holy cow.

[identity profile] concinnity.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 03:24 am (UTC)(link)
a) weird, and I love my dog. I have an animal-heavy life, but the "open mind" = stranger danger.
b) this is the first time I've ever been disturbed by your icon. Suddenly, sex doesn't seem like it should be the universal fandom. :(

[identity profile] gnomad.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 03:29 am (UTC)(link)
Wot? There's never a socially unacceptable time to talk about bestiality with the strangers around you.
ext_3386: (gross)

[identity profile] vito-excalibur.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 03:51 am (UTC)(link)
I said fourth thing, but really, the third thing was where my mind produced the sound of a needle screeching to a halt and completely revised my mental model of his relationship with his dog.

[identity profile] thepouncer.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 04:07 am (UTC)(link)
I adore my dogs. I loved my recently-departed Kirby more than any boyfriend, in the long term (Kirby stayed with me. The boyfriend did not). And I am still struck dumb by the inappropriateness of that conversation!

I'm also worried about the dog.

[identity profile] prettyshiny.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 04:29 am (UTC)(link)
I read your post to my spouse, and we agree that this sounds exactly like something my brother would do to someone, just to mess with his or her mind. You know, go to the park with the dog and the sweetie, sweetie goes off to find a bathroom, leaving the smart-ass alone to mess with the unsuspecting...

Though, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case here. Ick.
ext_8710: White Witch of Narnia, Mucha style (Default)

[identity profile] leyna55.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 05:48 am (UTC)(link)
Weird and creepy.Yes.

Mostly, though I'm distracted and charmed by the thought of the earthling's "climb every mountain mode" and "summit sadness".

[identity profile] rattlecatcher.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 07:01 am (UTC)(link)
Best interp I can give it is:

"I want this bench and table all to myself. What can I say that will ensure this outcome?"

Obviously, we need to redefine "best" by taking out anything rational, and skipping over using phrases like, "Hi, I'm kinda in need of some space and I was here first, and I don't know how to put it politely, or even not so politely but at least in a way that won't leave you getting a chill down your back every time you look back at this."

[identity profile] forsweatervests.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 07:14 am (UTC)(link)
I'm really, really hoping that dog is not being abused in any way. Collie or not, that's just...really creeping me out.

[identity profile] chinawolf.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 07:18 am (UTC)(link)
That was either extremely bizarre, or there is actually a simple explanation. Could it be that he has seen you before, in the company of Best Beloved? And that he was making sure you knew that - upon reflection - he thought same-sex relationships, even those raising children, were quite okay, even if he had hitherto always thought they weren't? And he convinced himself of that because other people had told him before that he loves his dog too much, i.e. should shift his love from the dog to a person who is "suitable", and he compares that situation to same sex relationships who are supposed to shift away their love to someone of the opposite gender?

I dunno. That's how it reads to me if I discount the theory that he's a guy who is intimate with his dog and likes to overshare. ;)

[identity profile] mari-redstar.livejournal.com 2009-11-17 10:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I was wondering if it might be something along those lines, especially since the guy stuck "or any man!" in there- maybe he thought he was having a conversation more like "Now, some people, they don't think we should let those homosexualists get married, but me, I figure so what? So they love each other! Love's great! I love my dog, for instance, and lots of people tell me that's weird- Clyde, they say to me, does Betsy here really need her own chair at the table, do you have to hand-stitch sixteen different collars for her to go with her seasonal bandanas- but hey, nothing wrong with that, is there? And that's just like this hullabaloo over gay marriage- people ought to be accepting of each other, that's what I'm saying, using a really weird metaphor that I may not have explained out loud enough."

Why he felt the need to have that conversation, or to strike into it with a stranger without even any small talk about the weather first, is still an open question, but at least it would dial the weird back to less bestiality-y levels.

[identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 07:45 am (UTC)(link)
You know, it's funny. I frequently tell my kitties they're the loves of my life. And I told Emma that all the time before she died, and really, it was totally true. I've never in my life had a human relationship as warm and unconditionally loving as the ones I've had with my pets. I don't even know what it's like to have a guy (or gal, I wouldn't be picky) love me for me.

But, I mean, they're CATS. I know this. They do not speak my language and their relationship, while wonderful, with me is not anything like a human relationship is, good or bad. And I sure as hell wouldn't go talking to strangers about it. In a park. With their little baby around.

I think that's beyond missing social cues -- you were talking to someone who's a tad deranged.

[identity profile] nimnod.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 07:48 am (UTC)(link)
So, to say what no-one else has, what if this dude has THAT SORT OF RELATIONSHIP with his dog? It's a bit pathological. But actually when you think about it, it doesn't hurt anyone.

Weirder, to me, is his lack of realisation that saying it, or (if it's not the case, expressing himself the way he did) is not considered socially acceptable and was likely to make other people highly uncomfortable.

[identity profile] nimnod.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 07:48 am (UTC)(link)
PS re my icon - if this guy is the reference weird, I think I'm way on the normal side. *phew* ;)

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[identity profile] dzurlady.livejournal.com - 2009-11-04 09:16 (UTC) - Expand

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[identity profile] nimnod.livejournal.com - 2009-11-04 10:24 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] keswindhover.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 08:54 am (UTC)(link)
If he was English he wouldn't have talked to you at all. Well, unless you also had a dog.

[identity profile] aidannwn.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 09:08 am (UTC)(link)
taking man's best friend to all new levels of social acceptance.
ext_1788: Photo of Lirael from the Garth Nix book of the same name, with the text 'dzurlady' (Default)

[identity profile] dzurlady.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 09:15 am (UTC)(link)
I'm surprised to find myself in the minority here, but I don't think it really goes off the rails until: "I really do love this dog. I mean love this dog," he continued. "People can't understand that, but it is what it is and I don't regret it." He paused for a second, then added, "I just wish people were open-minded. That's what I always say: keep an open mind."

Before that, it was weird, certainly, but possibly in the 'I cannot relate to humans and all of my caring, love and emotional satisfaction revolves around this dog' kind of way. At sentence four the possibility that he is having sex with his dog becomes somewhat worrying (although I cling to the idea that perhaps he is just really really committed in a non physical kind of way to his pet).

Of course, having said that, a lot of it would depend on his tone, body language etc and if your 'omg creepy' alerts were going off (as they clearly were) the conversation obviously was going off the rails earlier. I think that's just the point where you know for sure it can only get worse.

[identity profile] enelte.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 03:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Up to him confessing the dog was better than any woman or man, if it was me I could still take it as a joke, the kind old stranger with nothing to do tries to freak you out for amusement. But his next line totally creeped me out! o_O
ext_15775: (Miss my Mind)

[identity profile] louphoenix.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 04:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm torn between finding that story very amusing and very sad.

Of course that guy is totally weird, but more in a very tragic way. At least I think it's targic if humans have a deeper connection with their pets than their fellow human beings. I also don't really want to know how deep exatcly that relationship went, but it's definite more sad than creepy. Perhaps it's creepy for the dog, but people are doing weird things with their pets.

It's quite funny because recently I'm reading a lot about human sexuallity for my studies (history) and love to an animal is not as unusal as we modern people like to think. If you ever read a love poem to camel or about lonely herdsmen singing songs about their sheep, then you really now what's weird!

Btw: Hi! I'm reading your LJ since tree years or so but somehow never had the boldness to say something. It's just the coincidence of the topic and the fact that after years of reading fanfic, I now fancy that my english is now good enugh for conversations. I love your recs and your stories about the earthling even though I'm normaly not that fond of small children.

[identity profile] shadowvalkyrie.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 05:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm all for the dog-loving, my best friend in teenage years having been my dog, and me still preferring animal over human company any day, and all, BUT... Dude, that guy didn't sound nearly, er, platonic enough about it for comfort! O_o Yikes! -- And why he would need to creep out strangers in the park with that sort of confession is beyond me as well. (I'd probably have been unable to resist asking him whether he meant what I thought he meant. I'm morbidly curious like that.)
genarti: Knees-down view of woman on tiptoe next to bookshelves ([les mis] loon)

[personal profile] genarti 2009-11-04 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I would say it was a bit odd with the conversation-opener, but not irretrievably so -- just a slightly unfortunate choice of words in a slightly-but-not-horribly abrupt conversation-opener. And stayed on the getting-odder course as he failed to sidestep back into normalcy. However, the third comment is for me where it changes from "Um, okay then" to "AWKWARD NOW." That's the bit where I would stop being politely conversational and start looking for a polite excuse to be elsewhere.

[identity profile] chrissie-m.livejournal.com 2009-11-04 11:37 pm (UTC)(link)
The first thing would have set my alarm bells ringing a wee bit, but I suppose he could have just had an experience that made him realize how important his dog was; I remember telling a friend that I felt heartbroken after my cat died, which I think some people might find a bit extreme if they didn't see their pets as part of the family, maybe.

So the first thing I probably would have given my head a little shake but tried to rationalize it that way; the second, though? That's the kind of thing we tend to reserve for people about whom we feel passion of a more physical kind.

By the end of the conversation, I'm thinking either he's confessing to a physical relationship with that poor dog (or at least a desire to have one) or he's deliberately messing with the strange lady's mind. Either way, I wouldn't want to stick around and chat.

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