thefourthvine | Poll: Vid Watching

Like fics, there are certain things that will make me skip, such as a bad summary, but if it gets recommended enough, I may download anyway.

Especially since I don't really download vids that much anyway. I am horribly horribly picky and unreasonable, so they usually have to be heavily recommended.

The vid I recced to you is one of the ones that I have converted using 3GP Converter (http://www.divx-digest.com/articles/article_avi2ipod_page1.html) and uploaded to my iPod, so that I can have it with me wherever I may go!

Commenting anonymously, well, because.

I once burned some vids onto a CD and sent them to one overseas fannish friend who's on dial-up with limited access and had no real hope of ever seeing them otherwise. I knew I could trust her not to share them elsewhere and to keep what I'd done between the two of us. I didn't get permission from any of the vidders to do it. I don't feel like I did anything wrong... but obviously I still don't particularly want to get caught having done it.

I'd be interested to see what vidders have to say about this. How upset with me would you be if I'd done this with your vids?

I almost never watch or download vids. I think I've seen all of 3 vids--two due South ("Zebra," natch, and the "Wonder of Birds" one, and one SGA one, set to Carbon Leaf's "Desparation Song" (which is very good, by the way, though I have no idea who did it or where it is).

The thing about vids that your poll doesn't address is that, while I've enjoyed the ones I've seen, I'm just really not that into the visual and audio experience that is a vid. I'm not much of a music person, for one, and I'm also not that captivated by the visual images they generally contain. My preference is for text, pretty much any time. So the roadblocks to acquiring and watching vids (passwords, locked communities, secret handshakes, downloading, etc.) are enough to keep me from doing something I'm only half interested in anyway. If they were easier to access, I might have seen a lot of them by this point and totally fallen in love with the medium, but as it stands, I have not.

Because I ran out of space regarding reasons I won't download a vid: I also won't download from a free file host if it's too difficult. For example, with some of them I just can't even find a link, so I can't DL no matter how much I want to. I also tend to have a problem with MegaUpload, in that I have a fairly unstable connection and if a download poops out in the middle, it then blocks my IP from beginning another download. Very frustrating. But as long as a site lets me download, I don't care where it's hosted. Like, I don't have ethical qualms with any particular site. Also, regarding file size: I didn't pick anything for the smallest file size I'll download because I'm really just not that familiar with standard file sizes. I'll just pick whichever is the largest.

I took this poll even though I'm not a frequent vid watcher, so... But I have watched a few. I would be much more likely to watch them on youtube than if I have to download them, because I am not a rewatcher, therefore it's a bit of a pain to download something only to watch it once and trash it, you know? If I could just click and the vid was there and playing, I'd watch more, even if it's not high quality. I watch quite a bit of other stuff on youtube (TV clips, fake movie trailers, music videos, random shit, porn (on pornotube), etc.)

I've recommended without getting permission.

I did not click this because I've never recced a vid, but if I did, I totally would not ask permission, because honestly, wtf? I'm of the opinion that if it's on the web, anyone can link it.

See, bad summaries don't deter me with vids, even though they will turn me off of fic. I mean, if there is bad spelling or grammar or a less than intriguing writing style demonstrated in a story's summary, that's definitely an indicator of the level of writing ability in general. Whereas that's not necessarily true with vids, because somebody can be very technically proficient and artistic with that medium and still not be the best writer ever. It's similar to art in that I've come across some, just, abominable headers for art where the actual work is of extremely high quality. So I'm willing to overlook that when it comes to vids. :)

I have uploaded vids to share, but I didn't click that box because I've never uploaded to share with more than one person.

I mean, when I say I've uploaded someone else's vids to share, it's "I've sent people vids over AIM" or "I've uploaded to YSI and only given one person the link". To me, that's like showing someone a vid I have on my laptop, only they're not here with me. Especially since when I'm doing it I'm generally talking to the person about the vid in question.

There are definitely certain summary elements that will make me skip, but I'm not too bothered by grammar or spelling errors - I know; I can't believe I'm saying that either - because I figure vidding's a different skill. Plus, a lot of vidders are native speakers of a language other than English, so I don't, you know, want to insist on perfect syntax.

And I'm actually a very free-and-easy downloader, especially in rare fandoms. (Really popular vid fandoms - well, I can get vidded out if I see too many in one fandom, so I'm more picky about downloading stuff in, say, SGA or SPN than in a fandom I've only ever seen two vids for.) But, yeah, I hear you on the picky. I just always figure - it's four minutes, so it's no big deal if it sucks. (And a lot of them do suck, but some are surprisingly fabulous.)

I find my pickiness is in direct proportion to how much there is to download, and to my downloading speed; when I had slower DSL, I was more picky, and when there are boodles of great vids out, I tend to get more picky.

I've already seen that vid (and, may I just say, OMG WOW), but you rec'd me the 3GP Converter, so you have totally fulfilled your recommending duties tonight. Thank you!

(Although, hey - do you know any way to get the later episodes of KKM in fansub? Because BB watched to the end of the ones available here, and then I looked it up and realized it would be eternity until we could buy the whole series, because there's, like, forty more episodes to go. We would still buy the DVDs as they became available, I swear - BB just doesn't want to wait to see the eps.)

I'm not a vidder, of course, but - I wouldn't be upset. I think the thing to avoid is distributing for profit (of course) or outside the fannish world or (oh my god please no no) to the copyright holders or associates thereof; as far as distribution goes, helping out a fellow fan with limited download access seems perfectly kosher to me.

But I am totally ready to stand corrected by actual vidders.

Well, as to what else I've done with vids - I gave out a subdomain to someone who makes vids.

Now I have to explain ftp and all. *is bad at websites to begin with, so it's like the blind leading the blind*

On the other hand, I currently have 10GB of vids DL'ed. I have a variety of fandoms, from dragon ball z to gundam wing to yu-gi-oh. I have due south, sga, sg1, smallville, etc...

For some reason in the end is used a hell of a lot in AMV's.

And speaking of AMV's. If you can find it on the amv site, there was a vid there I dl'ed a really really long time ago. As in, at least 3 years ago with kazaalite. I know the file is up on amv - or was, a year ago.

Gundam Wing fandom, set to Invincibe by Pat Benatar. You can tell whomever made it worked hard to get it together. Hell, I still have the vid - it survived 5 different computers dieing on me.

As to songs, there are certain versions of songs I cannot stand. I forget what vid it was exactly, but it was set to She hates me - and I only really like the version of she fucking hates me by puddle of mudd. (I enjoyed that vid with no sound).

Also, I can't stand vids set to the music from the show being vidded. Er, more so in the anime fandoms. There really is no point in setting, say, white reflection (GW) to a GW vid... and using clips from when the song was played in the series. (The credits, i think?).

/ramble

See, I am totally not a visual person, and not an audio person, either; I will always prefer text, too. (By, you know, about the power of 10000.) But because vids are the easiest way for me to get TV shows (there's much more to key into, more to hang my cognition on (so to speak), in a vid than in a TV show), I worked really really hard to get them. And it was indeed work - I've got almost two thousand vids saved to my hard drives, and those are just the ones I thought were worth keeping. I watched a ton of vids. I paid close attention any time anyone wrote about vids. (And thus I can tell you: there is not enough vid meta in this world. Wah.) I took notes. I made BB watch vids with me so I would have someone to tell me what was going on.

And the thing is, I did learn how, more or less; I can't promise I get what I'm supposed to get from vids, or what everyone else gets, but I get a lot (and I'm still learning). I don't have it all figured out or anything, but I'm a lot better than I was, and it's no longer work - it's pure fun.

And I learned something important while I was doing all this: vids are a part of the great fannish conversation and - this is the neat part - they say things that fan fiction can't. (And vice versa, of course.) So I'm doubly glad I did all that work, because I didn't just get to learn about canons I couldn't really understand otherwise - I got this whole other thing I wouldn't have gotten otherwise, too.

Just - most people who are as non-visual as I am don't have the added motivation of not getting TV, so they have no reason to do all that work, and I know it. Otherwise, I'd totally write up a "How to Get Vids If You're Not the Kind of Person Who Gets Vids" post. (I think I could way reduce the number of vids a person would have to watch. Just - not to, like, four vids total, which is I think about how many I could persuade a non-visual person to try.)

But. That said, it's getting a lot easier to get to vids - most times, it's a matter of going to the vid announcement, off-clicking, and saving as. You really only have to go the secret handshake route for, like, .5% of vids these days, and mostly people who password protect their files are doing it because of robots or exposure to the outside world - not, you know, just to be difficult; I find that knowing that helps. (Like, recently someone's site got killed dead by a MetaFilter link. She's password protected right now; she can't afford for the whole world to download her vids.) I'm going to meta on this in a bit, but the prevailing attitude in the vid world seems to be changing, and part of that change is that vids are becoming easier to get. (Yay!)

Also. You must totally not miss Laura Shapiro and Pipsqueaky's "Goody Two Shoes." (The announcement is here (http://laurashapiro.livejournal.com/167095.html), and, yes, you'll need to go to her site, but you should already have the password if you have Wonder of Birds - and if you don't, OMG, get the password, because it is so worth it. This vid is about FRASER and RAY(S), and, and, and - I have no words, but BB and I just about collapsed from pure joy while viewing it. Oh, and while you're at the site, get Laura and

lithium_doll's "I Put You There." It's not really a vid as we think of vids, and you and every other fangirl on earth can totally relate to it.)

(Oh, and by the way, the LotR Desperation Song vid is by

wolfling. And it is just brilliant. IMO, of course.)

Every answer I've given should be put through a filter of, "If it's recced by someone I trust, I'll probably download it at some point, even if there's a pw, or it's huge." Maybe even if I have to mail off for a CD (once I have some spare cash).

I'm much, much, much less likely to just randomly click on a vid than I am on fic, because of the bandwidth issue.

This has been totally fascinating. I can't wait to read your meta.

Yeah, I have problems with finding links in amongst all the ads too. Unless it has a Super Amazing Rec, I tend to look for a moment, and if it's too hard, I go away again.

The free file servers can totally be problems, yup. I won't download from MegaUpload at all - can't, actually, because my security software hates that site and has diagnosed it as "invasive," whatever that means; I'm not going to disable it just to download. And I'm not too thrilled that YSI is requiring registration now. Other than that, I'll jump through the hoops necessary. (Except for, um, god, can't even remember the thing's name, but on that one, I have the problem you mentioned - I can't find the download link, look though I do - it's nothing but ads.)

I'll just pick whichever is the largest.

Me, too. Mostly. I would really wonder why a normal-length vid needed to be 150 or 200 MB - I mean, that just seems extreme.

And, finally, in re: your rec-me-a-vid answer - how did I not know that you rec vids? I am off to explore that site in depth, because OMG YAY! Almost no one recs vids, and doing it through del.icio.us is brilliant - it's the perfect way to remember where you found the vid announcement in case of unattributed vids.

*admires*

*bounds off to experience the shiny first hand*

You're in luck - there are a lot of vids on YouTube these days, and some of them were even put there by the vidders themselves; you'll often see a streaming (read: YouTube) as well as a download link on vid announcements these days.

(I prefer not to watch on YT, myself, because of the lower quality, and I do rewatch vids constantly, so. But I can see why it'd be appealing if you never rewatched.)

I did not click this because I've never recced a vid, but if I did, I totally would not ask permission, because honestly, wtf? I'm of the opinion that if it's on the web, anyone can link it.

You'd basically be right about this, actually. (Meta/poll discussion is forthcoming on that topic.) Not everything mentioned in that question is something I consider "bad," or even something that is against fannish etiquette; it's just stuff people have, at one time or another, told me to avoid.

I *totally* understand! I'm the same way!

Just go to Baka-Updates (http://www.baka-updates.com/search.php) -- it's a fantastic site for finding anime fansubs. Just search for "maou" and you'll get a listing of all the torrents available; I believe they have up through ep. 71.

Also -- if the torrents for some of the files you want are no longer being seeded, email me and I'm sure I can get them to you *somehow*!

I've done that, too - uploaded vids to share with just one person, often to see if that person could figure out who made the vid. (Unattributed vids are the bane of every recommender's existence, I swear.) But I checked the box. I don't think it was a bad thing to do, either - only a few of the things on that list are unquestionably and always wrong or against fannish etiquette, and some of them are almost never wrong or against fannish etiquette.

To me, that's like showing someone a vid I have on my laptop, only they're not here with me. Especially since when I'm doing it I'm generally talking to the person about the vid in question.

Precisely. Although, in all honesty, a lot of times the conversation goes like this:
Me: So. Do you know who...?
Person: Um. No. It's pretty good, though. Oh, ah-ha-ha, look at Shep's FACE!
Me: *wistful* Yeah. *sighs*

I am glad to be of service, madam. In fact, I'm just about to add Desperation Song to the page, because, yes. Wow. Thank you for pointing towards that one.

Combining your last post's topic with this one:

I preferred when linking & bookmarking (to del.icio.us (http://del.icio.us)) vids to link to the vid announcement post rather than the actually vids website. I find that 1) it easier and faster to find the vid you're linking to (the vid is directly stated and linked in the post so you wouldn't have scroll through a vids collection to find it) and 2) usually, more info about the vid & the vidder is offered and publicly available on the vid announcement than on the website, especially the password-protected website. So I love it when vidders make and organize vid announcement posts in their memories and/or tags index and I especially love it if they also link to those posts on their websites.

The other topic is password-protected vids website. I'm more hesitant to download a vid if I have to e-mail the vidder and request the log-in info. It depends on how much I want to see the vid right then. I might put it off for later, I might not even want to request the info, and I might request in right then. It depends on my mood, I guess.

I think I would be less hesitant if vidders did a comments request like I seen some media communities do. Like requiring people to comment with a statement of the vidder's choosing and they reply back with a screen comment of the log-in info. The vidder could screen all comments by default if they want to do a sticky post instead.

Okay...I see you're going to do a poll on this, so I'll refrain from doing so because honestly, I just can't fathom why anyone would ask permission to rec. I mean, yes...I pay attention to where people want links to go (main/warning pages, for example...or password paes on protected sites), but if you don't want things recced/linked, get them the heck offline. :)

(I feel the same way about "friending." Anyone's free not to friend me back or to f'lock their journal, but I totally don't get asking "permission" to read a publically accessible journal)

Addendum to my vid rec:

Fullscreen it, turn down the lights, turn UP the volume and move to the edge of your seat because that is where you're going to wind up anyway.

After OMG who-knows-how-many viewings I still gasp and flail at the end unable to even squee for the emotion and JOY my heart feels at this vid.

Best vid EVER (Maybe tied with Happy Ending. ;)

Oh! And I also wanted to redeem myself re: vid reccing, even though you said I don't have to. *g*

I'd highly recommend

obsessive24's Hikaru no Go vids (http://obsessive24.net/videos.html), since we're talking anime.

And Charmax's "Club Foot" Life on Mars vid (http://charmax.livejournal.com/47808.html) rocks my world so hard I can't even watch it less than twice at a time. (I think it would work pretty well even if you'd never seen an episode, too, so I beg you to give it a chance even if you don't know the show.)

I'm not sure I totally understand what the HUGE DEAL OMG is with showing a vid to someone outside fannish circles. I mean, obviously not to someone important, like a producer or actor, but... to your dad? To your best friend? I don't know. People use clips of shows for non-profity things all the time, on youtube and stuff, such as trailer parodies, and they get linked everywhere and no one seems to think it's a big deal. And vids are cool! And shiny! What's so wrong about saying, hey, look at this, guys?

Maybe I'm just prejudiced because my first experience with any, ANY kind of fannish behavior on the internet was a friend showing me a Buffy vid on her home computer. But I don't quite get why everyone is so sure that talking about Fight Club will bring down the feds on us. And you know, maybe part of this is that I'm young, and relatively new to fandom? But I'm not even sure I get the fannish taboo against mentioning slash to its source. Fandom is cool, yo, and I'm proud of it and I love it and I honestly, honestly don't think there's ever likely to be a legal threat to it, as long as things stay the way they are re: profit. It's interesting and fun and creative, and I think people should be PROUD of inspiring such awesomeness, not contemptuous. And you know what? From what I've seen, more and more people are, as time goes on. The mainstream is becoming more accepting of derivative work, not less.

And I hate closets.

Uhm, wow, sorry to rant all over your comments! I seriously, seriously don't mean to be wanky here or anything, but I truly don't get this, and your poll just reminded me of it. Sorry! Don't mind me! *hides*

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