Poll: Vid Watching

[thefourthvine]

This is the counterpart to the poll I posted earlier. (It, uh, had to undergo some revisions after the results of that poll.) And this one is for anyone who has ever seen a vid.

Again, feel totally free to pimp. I'd love to get a range of responses on this one.

After this, there'll be a round of vid meta coming out, but then I swear we'll go back to fan fiction. I'm really starting to miss recommending the written word.

[Poll #800594]

Comments

[abbylee]

Like fics, there are certain things that will make me skip, such as a bad summary, but if it gets recommended enough, I may download anyway.

Especially since I don't really download vids that much anyway. I am horribly horribly picky and unreasonable, so they usually have to be heavily recommended.

[glitterdemon.livejournal.com]

See, bad summaries don't deter me with vids, even though they will turn me off of fic. I mean, if there is bad spelling or grammar or a less than intriguing writing style demonstrated in a story's summary, that's definitely an indicator of the level of writing ability in general. Whereas that's not necessarily true with vids, because somebody can be very technically proficient and artistic with that medium and still not be the best writer ever. It's similar to art in that I've come across some, just, abominable headers for art where the actual work is of extremely high quality. So I'm willing to overlook that when it comes to vids. :)

[lynnmonster.livejournal.com]

The vid I recced to you is one of the ones that I have converted using 3GP Converter (http://www.divx-digest.com/articles/article_avi2ipod_page1.html) and uploaded to my iPod, so that I can have it with me wherever I may go!

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I've already seen that vid (and, may I just say, OMG WOW), but you rec'd me the 3GP Converter, so you have totally fulfilled your recommending duties tonight. Thank you!

(Although, hey - do you know any way to get the later episodes of KKM in fansub? Because BB watched to the end of the ones available here, and then I looked it up and realized it would be eternity until we could buy the whole series, because there's, like, forty more episodes to go. We would still buy the DVDs as they became available, I swear - BB just doesn't want to wait to see the eps.)

[(Anonymous)]

Commenting anonymously, well, because.

I once burned some vids onto a CD and sent them to one overseas fannish friend who's on dial-up with limited access and had no real hope of ever seeing them otherwise. I knew I could trust her not to share them elsewhere and to keep what I'd done between the two of us. I didn't get permission from any of the vidders to do it. I don't feel like I did anything wrong... but obviously I still don't particularly want to get caught having done it.

I'd be interested to see what vidders have to say about this. How upset with me would you be if I'd done this with your vids?

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I'm not a vidder, of course, but - I wouldn't be upset. I think the thing to avoid is distributing for profit (of course) or outside the fannish world or (oh my god please no no) to the copyright holders or associates thereof; as far as distribution goes, helping out a fellow fan with limited download access seems perfectly kosher to me.

But I am totally ready to stand corrected by actual vidders.

[cranberryink.livejournal.com]

I almost never watch or download vids. I think I've seen all of 3 vids--two due South ("Zebra," natch, and the "Wonder of Birds" one, and one SGA one, set to Carbon Leaf's "Desparation Song" (which is very good, by the way, though I have no idea who did it or where it is).

The thing about vids that your poll doesn't address is that, while I've enjoyed the ones I've seen, I'm just really not that into the visual and audio experience that is a vid. I'm not much of a music person, for one, and I'm also not that captivated by the visual images they generally contain. My preference is for text, pretty much any time. So the roadblocks to acquiring and watching vids (passwords, locked communities, secret handshakes, downloading, etc.) are enough to keep me from doing something I'm only half interested in anyway. If they were easier to access, I might have seen a lot of them by this point and totally fallen in love with the medium, but as it stands, I have not.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

See, I am totally not a visual person, and not an audio person, either; I will always prefer text, too. (By, you know, about the power of 10000.) But because vids are the easiest way for me to get TV shows (there's much more to key into, more to hang my cognition on (so to speak), in a vid than in a TV show), I worked really really hard to get them. And it was indeed work - I've got almost two thousand vids saved to my hard drives, and those are just the ones I thought were worth keeping. I watched a ton of vids. I paid close attention any time anyone wrote about vids. (And thus I can tell you: there is not enough vid meta in this world. Wah.) I took notes. I made BB watch vids with me so I would have someone to tell me what was going on.

And the thing is, I did learn how, more or less; I can't promise I get what I'm supposed to get from vids, or what everyone else gets, but I get a lot (and I'm still learning). I don't have it all figured out or anything, but I'm a lot better than I was, and it's no longer work - it's pure fun.

And I learned something important while I was doing all this: vids are a part of the great fannish conversation and - this is the neat part - they say things that fan fiction can't. (And vice versa, of course.) So I'm doubly glad I did all that work, because I didn't just get to learn about canons I couldn't really understand otherwise - I got this whole other thing I wouldn't have gotten otherwise, too.

Just - most people who are as non-visual as I am don't have the added motivation of not getting TV, so they have no reason to do all that work, and I know it. Otherwise, I'd totally write up a "How to Get Vids If You're Not the Kind of Person Who Gets Vids" post. (I think I could way reduce the number of vids a person would have to watch. Just - not to, like, four vids total, which is I think about how many I could persuade a non-visual person to try.)

But. That said, it's getting a lot easier to get to vids - most times, it's a matter of going to the vid announcement, off-clicking, and saving as. You really only have to go the secret handshake route for, like, .5% of vids these days, and mostly people who password protect their files are doing it because of robots or exposure to the outside world - not, you know, just to be difficult; I find that knowing that helps. (Like, recently someone's site got killed dead by a MetaFilter link. She's password protected right now; she can't afford for the whole world to download her vids.) I'm going to meta on this in a bit, but the prevailing attitude in the vid world seems to be changing, and part of that change is that vids are becoming easier to get. (Yay!)

Also. You must totally not miss Laura Shapiro and Pipsqueaky's "Goody Two Shoes." (The announcement is here (http://laurashapiro.livejournal.com/167095.html), and, yes, you'll need to go to her site, but you should already have the password if you have Wonder of Birds - and if you don't, OMG, get the password, because it is so worth it. This vid is about FRASER and RAY(S), and, and, and - I have no words, but BB and I just about collapsed from pure joy while viewing it. Oh, and while you're at the site, get Laura and lithium_doll's "I Put You There." It's not really a vid as we think of vids, and you and every other fangirl on earth can totally relate to it.)

(Oh, and by the way, the LotR Desperation Song vid is by wolfling. And it is just brilliant. IMO, of course.)

[glitterdemon.livejournal.com]

Because I ran out of space regarding reasons I won't download a vid: I also won't download from a free file host if it's too difficult. For example, with some of them I just can't even find a link, so I can't DL no matter how much I want to. I also tend to have a problem with MegaUpload, in that I have a fairly unstable connection and if a download poops out in the middle, it then blocks my IP from beginning another download. Very frustrating. But as long as a site lets me download, I don't care where it's hosted. Like, I don't have ethical qualms with any particular site. Also, regarding file size: I didn't pick anything for the smallest file size I'll download because I'm really just not that familiar with standard file sizes. I'll just pick whichever is the largest.

[cupidsbow.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have problems with finding links in amongst all the ads too. Unless it has a Super Amazing Rec, I tend to look for a moment, and if it's too hard, I go away again.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I took this poll even though I'm not a frequent vid watcher, so... But I have watched a few. I would be much more likely to watch them on youtube than if I have to download them, because I am not a rewatcher, therefore it's a bit of a pain to download something only to watch it once and trash it, you know? If I could just click and the vid was there and playing, I'd watch more, even if it's not high quality. I watch quite a bit of other stuff on youtube (TV clips, fake movie trailers, music videos, random shit, porn (on pornotube), etc.)

I've recommended without getting permission.

I did not click this because I've never recced a vid, but if I did, I totally would not ask permission, because honestly, wtf? I'm of the opinion that if it's on the web, anyone can link it.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

You're in luck - there are a lot of vids on YouTube these days, and some of them were even put there by the vidders themselves; you'll often see a streaming (read: YouTube) as well as a download link on vid announcements these days.

(I prefer not to watch on YT, myself, because of the lower quality, and I do rewatch vids constantly, so. But I can see why it'd be appealing if you never rewatched.)

I did not click this because I've never recced a vid, but if I did, I totally would not ask permission, because honestly, wtf? I'm of the opinion that if it's on the web, anyone can link it.

You'd basically be right about this, actually. (Meta/poll discussion is forthcoming on that topic.) Not everything mentioned in that question is something I consider "bad," or even something that is against fannish etiquette; it's just stuff people have, at one time or another, told me to avoid.

[ladysorka]

I have uploaded vids to share, but I didn't click that box because I've never uploaded to share with more than one person.

I mean, when I say I've uploaded someone else's vids to share, it's "I've sent people vids over AIM" or "I've uploaded to YSI and only given one person the link". To me, that's like showing someone a vid I have on my laptop, only they're not here with me. Especially since when I'm doing it I'm generally talking to the person about the vid in question.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I've done that, too - uploaded vids to share with just one person, often to see if that person could figure out who made the vid. (Unattributed vids are the bane of every recommender's existence, I swear.) But I checked the box. I don't think it was a bad thing to do, either - only a few of the things on that list are unquestionably and always wrong or against fannish etiquette, and some of them are almost never wrong or against fannish etiquette.

To me, that's like showing someone a vid I have on my laptop, only they're not here with me. Especially since when I'm doing it I'm generally talking to the person about the vid in question.

Precisely. Although, in all honesty, a lot of times the conversation goes like this:
Me: So. Do you know who...?
Person: Um. No. It's pretty good, though. Oh, ah-ha-ha, look at Shep's FACE!
Me: *wistful* Yeah. *sighs*

[monroe-nell.livejournal.com]

Well, as to what else I've done with vids - I gave out a subdomain to someone who makes vids.

Now I have to explain ftp and all. *is bad at websites to begin with, so it's like the blind leading the blind*

On the other hand, I currently have 10GB of vids DL'ed. I have a variety of fandoms, from dragon ball z to gundam wing to yu-gi-oh. I have due south, sga, sg1, smallville, etc...

For some reason in the end is used a hell of a lot in AMV's.

And speaking of AMV's. If you can find it on the amv site, there was a vid there I dl'ed a really really long time ago. As in, at least 3 years ago with kazaalite. I know the file is up on amv - or was, a year ago.

Gundam Wing fandom, set to Invincibe by Pat Benatar. You can tell whomever made it worked hard to get it together. Hell, I still have the vid - it survived 5 different computers dieing on me.

As to songs, there are certain versions of songs I cannot stand. I forget what vid it was exactly, but it was set to She hates me - and I only really like the version of she fucking hates me by puddle of mudd. (I enjoyed that vid with no sound).

Also, I can't stand vids set to the music from the show being vidded. Er, more so in the anime fandoms. There really is no point in setting, say, white reflection (GW) to a GW vid... and using clips from when the song was played in the series. (The credits, i think?).

/ramble

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Gundam Wing fandom, set to Invincibe by Pat Benatar.

*glooms*

The only Gundam-related AMV I could find set to Invincible was this one (http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_videoinfo.php?v=121540), but as it was posted two months ago (and it's Gundam Seed, not Gundam Wing), I don't think it's the same one. Darn.

For some reason in the end is used a hell of a lot in AMV's.

Oh my god it so totally is. I have this theory that there must be a law in anime fandom that somewhere in your first ten vids you have to make a Naruto or Evangelion vid and you have to make a vid set to something by Linkin Park. A lot of the more sensible AMV editors choose to make a Naruto (or Evangelion) vid set to Linkin Park just to get it all out of the way in one go, and I respect that, but I am so, so tired of characters who tried so hard, and got so far, and in the end, it doesn't really matter.

I mean, I get that it's good to cut to and full of emotion and it's easy to find scenes of people yelling/screaming/shouting/looking angry (especially in Naruto and Evangelion), but - there has to be another song that would work.

As to songs, there are certain versions of songs I cannot stand. I forget what vid it was exactly, but it was set to She hates me - and I only really like the version of she fucking hates me by puddle of mudd.

Was it sisabet's Moonlighting vid? Because if not, well, you might want to check it (http://sisabet.livejournal.com/347023.html) out, because it's set to Richard Cheese's version of She Hates Me, and so it's all lounge singer and piano, which is fabulous. And that tone and style works fantastically well with what I could tell of the fandom. (It's a show from the '70s. About two people. Who don't seem to get along that well. And according to Best Beloved, the guy was Bruce Willis back when he had hair, although I seriously have a hard time believing that.)

Also, I can't stand vids set to the music from the show being vidded.

Yeah. I tend to wonder what the point is there, too.

/ramble

Ramble is totally spoken here.

[cupidsbow.livejournal.com]

Every answer I've given should be put through a filter of, "If it's recced by someone I trust, I'll probably download it at some point, even if there's a pw, or it's huge." Maybe even if I have to mail off for a CD (once I have some spare cash).

I'm much, much, much less likely to just randomly click on a vid than I am on fic, because of the bandwidth issue.

This has been totally fascinating. I can't wait to read your meta.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Maybe even if I have to mail off for a CD (once I have some spare cash).

It's really worth trying that if you ever get the chance (I recommend Scooby Road as the vid to get on DVD, if she ever puts out another printing of it, because it's just right to watch that puppy like that, but there are other sets I've got that were well worth the extra effort and cost). For me, it's a very different experience, watching vids on CD/DVD and watching them downloaded on my computer. (I keep hoping someone else will post about this and prove I'm not the only one.)

Someday, I will find a way to get a copy of the Vividcon DVDs. And I will be a happy, happy vid-watcher, oh yes I will.

This has been totally fascinating. I can't wait to read your meta.

I'm glad you're finding it interesting; I am, too (obviously), but I have a sort of feeling that 98% of the people who read this LJ are rolling their eyes all, "Oh my GOD shut UP about VIDS already." But they are doomed to disappointment in the short run, because the vid meta is now in two pieces and developing tentacles. It's Mommy's Mutant Meta and it's growing rapidly.

*considers finding a better metaphor*

*decides just to pretend that was a good metaphor and hopes you will do likewise*

[wistfuljane.livejournal.com]

Combining your last post's topic with this one:

I preferred when linking & bookmarking (to del.icio.us (http://del.icio.us)) vids to link to the vid announcement post rather than the actually vids website. I find that 1) it easier and faster to find the vid you're linking to (the vid is directly stated and linked in the post so you wouldn't have scroll through a vids collection to find it) and 2) usually, more info about the vid & the vidder is offered and publicly available on the vid announcement than on the website, especially the password-protected website. So I love it when vidders make and organize vid announcement posts in their memories and/or tags index and I especially love it if they also link to those posts on their websites.

The other topic is password-protected vids website. I'm more hesitant to download a vid if I have to e-mail the vidder and request the log-in info. It depends on how much I want to see the vid right then. I might put it off for later, I might not even want to request the info, and I might request in right then. It depends on my mood, I guess.

I think I would be less hesitant if vidders did a comments request like I seen some media communities do. Like requiring people to comment with a statement of the vidder's choosing and they reply back with a screen comment of the log-in info. The vidder could screen all comments by default if they want to do a sticky post instead.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I preferred when linking & bookmarking (to del.icio.us) vids to link to the vid announcement post rather than the actually vids website.

This is definitely my preference, both as a link/tag/bookmark maker and a link/etc. user, and luckily it seems to be what vidders prefer, too.

And, hey - does this mean you have a del.icio.us account for vid bookmarks? And if so, would you be willing to share?

So I love it when vidders make and organize vid announcement posts in their memories and/or tags index and I especially love it if they also link to those posts on their websites.

I don't know if I've ever noticed a vidder doing that, linking to memories/tags from the website, but I would love it if vidders did, because - yeah. I prefer using memories and tags for all the reasons you mention and more.

The other topic is password-protected vids website. I'm more hesitant to download a vid if I have to e-mail the vidder and request the log-in info.

I definitely felt that way in the beginning of my vid odyssey. I don't feel that way any more; I still prefer non-protected sites, just because - hey, easier! Faster. (Plus, for various complicated reasons, I don't let myself access my fannish email on the computer where I do most of my work - too distracting. But that is where I download all the vids, so there's this weird shuffle I have to do.) But I'm not hesitant to email vidders for passwords anymore. (I just feel a little sad, because I know that I have almost no chance of successfully recommending a vid to people if they have to email for a password first.)

I think I would be less hesitant if vidders did a comments request like I seen some media communities do. Like requiring people to comment with a statement of the vidder's choosing and they reply back with a screen comment of the log-in info. The vidder could screen all comments by default if they want to do a sticky post instead.

That is a really interesting idea, and not one I'd thought to apply to vidders. Do you mind if I mention it in the Mutant Vid Meta(s) I am currently working on?

[cold-poet.livejournal.com]

Addendum to my vid rec:

Fullscreen it, turn down the lights, turn UP the volume and move to the edge of your seat because that is where you're going to wind up anyway.

After OMG who-knows-how-many viewings I still gasp and flail at the end unable to even squee for the emotion and JOY my heart feels at this vid.

Best vid EVER (Maybe tied with Happy Ending. ;)

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Yay! I haven't already seen your vid rec. (I'm kind of alarmed by how many I have seen. My vid habit is obviously much closer to an addiction than I thought. But I refuse to seek help, damn it.)

*departs to download*

(Maybe tied with Happy Ending. ;)

God, I love that one. All I have to do is see him fall, even without the song, and I grin.

*loves*

[kalpurna.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I totally understand what the HUGE DEAL OMG is with showing a vid to someone outside fannish circles. I mean, obviously not to someone important, like a producer or actor, but... to your dad? To your best friend? I don't know. People use clips of shows for non-profity things all the time, on youtube and stuff, such as trailer parodies, and they get linked everywhere and no one seems to think it's a big deal. And vids are cool! And shiny! What's so wrong about saying, hey, look at this, guys?

Maybe I'm just prejudiced because my first experience with any, ANY kind of fannish behavior on the internet was a friend showing me a Buffy vid on her home computer. But I don't quite get why everyone is so sure that talking about Fight Club will bring down the feds on us. And you know, maybe part of this is that I'm young, and relatively new to fandom? But I'm not even sure I get the fannish taboo against mentioning slash to its source. Fandom is cool, yo, and I'm proud of it and I love it and I honestly, honestly don't think there's ever likely to be a legal threat to it, as long as things stay the way they are re: profit. It's interesting and fun and creative, and I think people should be PROUD of inspiring such awesomeness, not contemptuous. And you know what? From what I've seen, more and more people are, as time goes on. The mainstream is becoming more accepting of derivative work, not less.

And I hate closets.

Uhm, wow, sorry to rant all over your comments! I seriously, seriously don't mean to be wanky here or anything, but I truly don't get this, and your poll just reminded me of it. Sorry! Don't mind me! *hides*

[kalpurna.livejournal.com]

also, do you think I could have used any more italics? *shame*

[raveninthewind.livejournal.com]

The nonfannish people to whom I've shown vids were family members or friends who haad an interest in particular source material--the song or the show.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

As I said to kalpurna, I worded that question badly. (I also left out "I won't watch streaming vids" from another question - not my best poll ever, I don't think.)

When I said "nonfan," I meant, "person or group of people who might not get it and whose behavior you cannot vouch for." Basically, I'm talking about people who might, out of enthusiasm or innocence or whatever, do something seriously stupid that would get the vid into the hands of the Empire. (RIAA, MPAA, copyright holders, Darth Vader, etc.) Or people you don't know well enough to be sure that they wouldn't.

Showing a friend a vid is, I think, not quite the same - it's more like showing it to a fan. Particularly if the person loves the source already.

Poll: Vid Watching

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

I recommend and push vids a lot and I doubt that will ever change, but I do so through email, on mailing lists, in comments on other people's LJs, and in person. Don't rec through my own LJ, because, well, I don't post in my own LJ period.

Re watching vids, I didn't check streaming vids because streaming video feed just doesn't work for dial-up, and I don't count the very few times I've done so using someone else's computer and broadband connection. And I didn't add this option via text box, but you don't list getting vids via a trade or loan with other fen, something that was very common with tapes and even as vids moved to DVD distribution, though perhaps less so now as more vids come online.

There really is nothing that will keep me from trying to get a copy of a vid once I've decided that I want it. If it is a totally unknown vid from an unknown-to-me vidder, in a fandom that I've never heard of or actively dislike, then yes, eventually you could come up with some combination of roadblocks that would stop me - but as that vid is probably already at the bottom of an incredibly long Want Vid list, it's really a moot point. But if I want a vid, well, the lengths to which I've gone over the years are proof positive that fandom is, indeed, an obsession. *g* There are vids that I've spent literally years trying to obtain - and some that I'me still actively pursuing two decades after first seeing or hearing about them.

I chose 50mm as the largest vid I'll download, but that's a bit misleading. 50mb is about the limit that I will typically stretch to download on dial-up, as that can take nearly 3 hours where I can't use the computer for anything else and the site needs to support transfer resumption and allow a download manager since the connection is often dodgy. But I've been know to download larger vids with proper incentive - even on dial-up. There was a due South vid that was over 100mb and wasn't that a fun experience, but hey, it was due South. The largest vid file was likely Lum's Scooby Road at 250mb, but that's a song cycle rather than a single vid. Wait, Charmax's gorgeous Xena vid, Boom Boom Ba, in a super-high quality version topped out over 200mb.

Re: Poll: Vid Watching

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I recommend and push vids a lot and I doubt that will ever change, but I do so through email, on mailing lists, in comments on other people's LJs, and in person. Don't rec through my own LJ, because, well, I don't post in my own LJ period.

Do you have a specific mailing list on which you push vids? Because I've been the beneficiary of your (incredibly cool) vid resources (in dS and Pros, plus you were the person who convinced me that it was worth sending off for DVD sets), and I'd love to hear about your favorite vids.

And I didn't add this option via text box, but you don't list getting vids via a trade or loan with other fen, something that was very common with tapes and even as vids moved to DVD distribution, though perhaps less so now as more vids come online.

Well, it was totally an accident that I left "won't watch the vid if it's only available on YouTube," but it wasn't an accident that I left off DVD/videotape trade; I didn't know that happened enough to be considered a means of exchange.

And now I do. Um - next vid poll, I guess.

I chose 50mm as the largest vid I'll download, but that's a bit misleading.

I was curious to see what you'd pick, since you're one of the few vid enthusiasts I know who is on dialup. And I totally did not expect it to be as big as 50MB - the smaller numbers were put up there with you and your fellow dialuppers in mind, actually. Three hours of downloading time is quite some dedication. Wow. That's made me swear that I will no longer whine when my download speed drops below 100KB/second.

The largest vid file was likely Lum's Scooby Road at 250mb, but that's a song cycle rather than a single vid.

You don't do AMVs at all, I'm assuming, but if you did - there are a lot of multi-editor projects over there, and many of them are, like, an hour long. Which means they clock in at around ~700 MB, usually. I mean, they are totally worth downloading - it's an amazing experience to see so many vidders working with a similar theme or music or whatever the unifying element of the multi-editor project is, and an hour of solid vids is very different than four minutes of vid - but 700 MB would take you two days to download. (And you can't even use your connection while the download is going.) Yikes.

Wait, Charmax's gorgeous Xena vid, Boom Boom Ba, in a super-high quality version topped out over 200mb.

*envies*

I'm an idiot and didn't notice that she'd posted the super high quality link until it was gone. But that vid is so fucking gorgeous at any size, and I'm thrilled to have the DivX remaster, even if it is only about 50 MB.

[melpemone.livejournal.com]

Until very recently (like, last Saturday), the only way I saw vids was through other people, because I was on dial-up and it was pure torture downloading anything above 15mb (yes, I have spent my first weekend with DSL downloading vids like a maniac, why do you ask?). So to everyone who's shared a vid with a less fortunate fan, my thanks to you, and I have every intention of returning the favour. :-)

I did want to mention, though, that passworded vids are less likely to be grabbed by me, at least right now. I always feel awkward emailing a stranger, and my urge to see a particular vid (especially if it's not in my fandom, or recced because of especially nifty editing, or something) tends to pass pretty quickly anyway - if I can't get at it right away, I'm not likely to get it at all. I'm probably missing out on some brilliant stuff. :-(

[jenna-thorn.livejournal.com]

Add me to this group.

I can only download vids when at the coffeshop or otherwise using someone else's wifi, so I pretty much depend on vid recs from people whose fic recs I've grown to trust.

Because I don't have constant access to internet speeds suitable for downloading, emailing someone for a password isn't really an option. By the time she gets back to me a week later or even an day later, it'll be another four weeks before I can make an attempt. Add to that my own timidity about initiating contact and, nope. I know that I'm cheating myself out of lovely stuff, but it's a one two punch, and I'm not invested heavily enough in watching vids to overcome it.

[mofic.livejournal.com]

Is recommedning a vid without permission a controversial practice? I know very little about vids but figure that they are out there to be watched, commented on, and recommended, like fanfic.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Well, no, as it turns out, but I thought it was.

That's what spawned this whole surge of vid polls (and vid meta); cupidsbow and I were talking about getting permission to rec vids. She said she didn't and she didn't want to start, and I said it sucked but I'd been told it was mandatory. And then it occurred to me to ask the vidders.

What they said, basically, was that it really isn't necessary to ask permission. (Although a lot of them like to be asked because it's almost the only feedback they get.)

Of course, I will be going into much greater detail on this one in the follow-up posts to this poll (and the one before it, which was for vidders only). Probably way, way more detail than anyone actually wants to read.

I know very little about vids but figure that they are out there to be watched, commented on, and recommended, like fanfic.

You are entirely right about this. (Now.)

[toscas-kiss.livejournal.com]

I love all Wolfling's vids, but especially Exile, Winter and Harder to Breathe. Her/his site is here:

http://www.fwolfling.com/vids/

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

*nods enthusiastically*

OMG yes. And do not forget Desperation Song, which is perhaps my favorite of all her vids.

[dzurlady.livejournal.com]

Never say never - it's not that I *won't* ever download these vids, it's just that I'm less likely to do so.
I won't download vids that are on password-protected sites if I have to email the vidder to get the password.
I won't send away for vids by mail if they're only available on CD/DVD.

I won't download vids with grammar or spelling mistakes in the summary.
I won't download a vid if there's not enough information.
I won't download vids with crappy images/teaser picture.
These may make me reconsider, since I think that it shows a lack of care and attention to detail, which doesn't make for a good vid. It depends how bad it is. Sentances like 'I made this in one day!' or 'I'm not happy with it but want to post it anyway (to get rid of it)' do not bode well for a vid, and make me less likely to dl.

I won't download vids that are in certain formats. (Examples: .wmv, .avi, .mpg)
Pretty much only real media, since I can't play them. Everything else is cool.

I won't download vids that are over a certain file size.
I won't download vids that are under a certain file size.
This depends on if a vid looks good/is by a vidder I trust/was enthusiastically recced/what other file sizes are avaliable. I tend to download the largest file size, unless it's particularly large (50MB+)

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

These may make me reconsider, since I think that it shows a lack of care and attention to detail, which doesn't make for a good vid. It depends how bad it is. Sentances like 'I made this in one day!' or 'I'm not happy with it but want to post it anyway (to get rid of it)' do not bode well for a vid, and make me less likely to dl.

Uh, yeah. "It took me like FOUR HOURS to make this LOL!" essentially guarantees I won't be downloading it. And, also, if you tell me your vid is crap, guess what? I will believe you.

Pretty much only real media, since I can't play them. Everything else is cool.

I'm kind of wishing I'd asked what formats people won't dl, but I didn't want to make the poll forever long.

I'll download anything I can play (and I can play even really mutant weird file formats), but I tend to look askance at .wmv. That, by the way, is a habit I picked up from AMVs, because for non-yaoi AMVs .wmv is a bad sign. For live-action (and yaoi anime) vids, not so much, and I'm not sure why. (Also, there are some effects used on .wmvs that only work properly in WMP, and I hate that.)

This depends on if a vid looks good/is by a vidder I trust/was enthusiastically recced/what other file sizes are avaliable. I tend to download the largest file size, unless it's particularly large (50MB+)

I reflexively dl the largest size offered, but if it's, like, 200 MB for a four minute vid, I'd wonder why it was so large. I mean, if it's because it's super high quality, then yay and I will download with joy, but there's also a chance it's a glitch. So, at that point, it's a question of how much I trust the vidder to have her technical shit together. (AMVs also totally skewed my sense of what "big" means when it comes to vid files; the site's limit for locally hosted vids without special permission is 100 MB, and a lot of vids use almost all that, and some have visibly been tweaked to be just under it.)

[lapillus]

You forgot "ran a vidshow" (and ran a vid con) :-)

As to what will turn me off of a vid, song choice can, especially with unknown vidders that and occasionally the described theme of a vid.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

You forgot "ran a vidshow" (and ran a vid con)

Well, I consider people who have just gone to VVC to be, you know, experts in the field.

As to what will turn me off of a vid, song choice can, especially with unknown vidders that and occasionally the described theme of a vid.

I wish I could say that was true for me, but it mostly isn't. I relish truly inappropriate songs - I mean, I adore and collect bad-song-choice vids; they are my secret shameful vid love, especially when they make a wholly inappropriate song work. And I also collect good vids set to the most frequently used songs. (If you ever need to put together a vid show entirely of really good "Holding out for a Hero" or "I'm Too Sexy" or "Battle Without Honor or Humanity" or "In the End" or "Hallelujah" or Evanescence vids, I am here for you, although I trust folks would have more sense than to attend such a panel.)

[wychwood]

I won't generally download vids promiscuously, as it were - only on recommendation. So I'm usually not worried about things like summaries and file size, because if it's good, it's worth the effort.

When it comes to "distributing" - I pass links for vids along, the same as I would for fic. If I think it's good, I'll share it. It wouldn't really occur to me to ask permission to do so. It's always on a personal level, though - I might ask if I were going to post a link on a website, or something.

I've shown or distributed vids not my own outside of fannish circles.
I said yes for this, but it's qualified - I wouldn't just go around showing random people random vids. But I have played (appropriate) vids for my brothers, and my mother, and for a friend who is potentially fannish but doesn't really have the time or Internet access for it. Basically for people who I think would appreciate the vids, but who don't have the kind of connections to see them themselves.

I've also occasionally - if I'm sending someone a bunch of SGA episodes burnt to disk, or something like that, and I have half a disk free, say, I'll often chuck on a bunch of interesting-looking things - pictures, fic, vids, whatever seems appropriate. Vids usually have source information in them, so I don't feel bad about it.

Basically, if I'm not claiming a product as my own, or profitting off it, I have very little compunction about sharing it with individuals I think might be interested. Is this something that people get upset about? Because it's certainly not an issue I'm really aware of.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

But I have played (appropriate) vids for my brothers, and my mother, and for a friend who is potentially fannish but doesn't really have the time or Internet access for it. Basically for people who I think would appreciate the vids, but who don't have the kind of connections to see them themselves.

I phrased that question badly. I was trying to ask about people who aren't fans and whose behavior you can't vouch for. (Strangers, near-strangers, idiots, people with issues - you know the sorts of people I mean.) Basically, I wanted to know if you'd shown vids to people who were likely to turn around and, for example, send them to the music copyright holder, whether out of sincere but misguided enthusiasm or out of a genuine desire to cause trouble. It's just - I consider people I'm close to - for example, my Best Beloved - to be in fandom kind of by extension of my fanishness (like, they aren't fans, but they're part of the fannish extended family) and it didn't occur to me that most people would not see it that way.

Basically, if I'm not claiming a product as my own, or profitting off it, I have very little compunction about sharing it with individuals I think might be interested. Is this something that people get upset about? Because it's certainly not an issue I'm really aware of.

The short answer is: no, it really isn't much of an issue. And it's even less of an issue if you let the vidder know you enjoyed her vid. (Don't you love how deftly I'm inserting this subtle commercial for feedback?) Most vidders would much, much rather have feedback of any kind then have someone get all careful with permissions and such. The biggest problem, actually, is that for some vidders permissions stuff is just about all the feedback they get, which makes them really, really want those permission requests.

[fairestcat]

So, I'm one of the 9 people (as of this comment) who has admitted to uploading other people's vids to yousendit for sharing, but I'm not sure my doing so really counts for the spirit of what you're asking, since I had the vidder's complete and full permission to do so.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Well, but I'm not saying all those things are wrong; they are just things that at least one person has told me not to do at one time or another. But that person wasn't necessarily, you know, the arbiter of good behavior. (At least, I'd better hope not; I checked three of those boxes myself.)

And none of them is wrong if you have the permission of all parties involved. I mean, this is fandom; there are, like, four hard and fast rules here. (Or three if you don't count the ticky box rule, which I am in constant and flagrant violation of.)

[katie-m.livejournal.com]

What I mean by I've burned vids not my own to disks to send to other fans is I've burned a couple of copies of the Vividcon discs for people.

[cofax7]

I've done this. And once or twice I burned cds of some vids for people who are on dialup and can't even begin to get access to vids. Always people I trusted not to abuse the privilege, though.

[forked.livejournal.com]

Like some other folks, I pretty much only download vids that have been rec'ed. If a vid's been rec'ed by a trusted source, then the summary etc. don't much play a part in whether I'll download it. Though I won't email a vidder for access- I just hate doing it. One of my favorite vidders does it like that and of course I emailed once, immediately lost/forgot the password, and it's just not worth it to have to email again. And it makes me feel stupid, which doesn't help.

Oh- but I'll show vids to non-fans, no problem. My 1.5 year old nephew is completely infatuated with that 'Itsy Bitsy Spider' SG-1 vid. It's like baby crack or something. He stops whatever he's doing and just stares at it while bobbing along to the music.

But it's not like I'm sending them off to record labels or something!

IBS Vid

[(Anonymous)]

Oh- but I'll show vids to non-fans, no problem. My 1.5 year old nephew is completely infatuated with that 'Itsy Bitsy Spider' SG-1 vid. It's like baby crack or something. He stops whatever he's doing and just stares at it while bobbing along to the music.

LOL. IBS isn't just baby crack - it works on adults too; I love that vid! And it's never too early to start imprinting the next generation of fans on great vids.

[keswindhover.livejournal.com]

My link to the recommended vid 'Proud' didn't work, so here it is:

http://www.dualbunny.com/buffy/

Season one, and exploring those fascinating mother/father/daughter/son vibes between Apollo/Kara/Adama/Roslin which seemed to get lost in season two.

Oh, and I chose the song!

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Well, on the one hand, I've already seen that vid. (Rather a lot, in fact.) But on the other - OMG, it's one of my favorite BSG ones. (Since I don't know the fandom or the canon at all, BSG vids have to hit me just right, and wow how that one did - one of the first that did, as I recall. The familial vibe plays out perfectly even if you haven't a clue who those people are, and it's just - wow. Both a glory and a gut punch.) So, really, excellent rec.

And kudos to you on the song choice; I've seen it used in other fandoms, but I'll always think of it as BSG, because it's just so perfect, and I love the layers it gives to the vid.

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

One thing that's not in your list of choices and that might influence whether or not I watch a vid is song choice. Sometimes I won't watch a vid cuz I don't like the song.

Another thing is not so much summary as genre. I'm not big on angst, so in general after I've seen the first dozen or so angsty vids in any one fandom, that's pretty much it for me. Also, they all tend to use the same clips, so it gets dull after awhile. I prefer humor and original ideas (such as the hilarious Monty Python/Star Trek vid that I recently saw) over angst, because they're fun and the vidders often use clips that are not expected and not often seen.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

One thing that's not in your list of choices and that might influence whether or not I watch a vid is song choice. Sometimes I won't watch a vid cuz I don't like the song.

That was a deliberate omission, actually; I was trying to focus solely on things that had very little to do with the vid itself. And song choice is a big part of the vid, even though I myself will cheerfully watch vids set to songs I hate. (It gives me perverse pleasure. Like, if I ever learned to vid, it would be solely for the purpose of making a Lord King Bad Vid set to one of my least favorite songs of all time - "Clouds," by Joni Mitchell. SGA, John Sheppard. He's looked at clouds from both sides now! He's looked at life from both sides now! He's looked at love from both sides now!)

I'm not big on angst, so in general after I've seen the first dozen or so angsty vids in any one fandom, that's pretty much it for me. Also, they all tend to use the same clips, so it gets dull after awhile.

Oh, yeah, I hear that. I don't know how many BtVS vids you've seen, but there's one shot with Spike draped over a cross that - I mean, I get that it's a fabulous shot: totally visual, totally powerful, basically perfect. It's just, it's in every serious Spike vid ever. There are many that I love anyway (and there's one vid where I was so sure the shot was coming and it would be perfect and I was looking forward to it, actually - so of course that vid didn't use it), but that particular clip has really lost a lot of emotional weight for me.