Poll: Consensus, Part One

[thefourthvine]

So. I miss talking to and hearing from y'all. But I'm suffering from a tiny problem, namely absence of any ability to finish anything. Someday I hope to be able to write actual useful sentences that connect to other sentences again, but today is not that day, so I'm going to do a themed poll series instead of meta or a themed recs post. (There are only three parts to this themed poll set, but I realize that, from me, three posts is totally massive spamming. My apologies in advance.)

The poll's theme is: consensus.

In part one, below, I'm going to try to establish my relative fannish sanity by consensus. To do so, I need to take you on a brief tour of my brain, focusing on two particular fannish things it does that I'm starting to suspect are - well, weird. (And keep in mine I'm judging myself compared to other fans; we'd already be considered insane by many of Them Folks Out There.)

We will now depart on our trip through TFV's brain. Please keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times.

Imaginary Fandoms. I have, um, imaginary fandoms. I don't mean original fiction that I tell myself - I mean original fandoms, where I come up with, for example, a long and detailed original story, and then entertain myself with considering - and sometimes, um, even writing - various types of fan fiction or kerfluffles or meta that might result from given installments of the story. Sometimes I do, like, a TV series, and cast it with imaginary actors and plan out both FPF and RPF. In my most recent imaginary fandom, I've even begun mentally vidding it.

These imaginary fandoms hit basically all my buttons, of course. I'm not actually going to describe this in any kind of detail, because, um, oh my god so embarrassing that I kind of want to die just from typing it out, but the current one involves time traveling teams (one "temporal scientist" and one assassin-ish type) from the future. The main team, at this point (in my head, we have arrived roughly at book or season three), has uncovered evidence that they are working for - and trapped by, and no, I'm not even going to elaborate on the whole legal enslavement aspect, because I do not want to die of embarrassment - an organization of extremely questionable ethics and purpose, which opposes an organization that also has extremely questionable ethics and purpose. Oh, and the timestream, which they're supposed to protect, is slowly dissolving.

I have assorted mental fan fiction for this story, all carefully tagged to various chapters or episodes. I have, as I said, mental vids. I entertained myself on one long, hideous drive to Pasadena imagining the meta resulting from the end of book or season one.

I'm pretty sure that all this is the very definition of sad and pathetic. But, hey, this is fandom - maybe we all do this. Do you?

Epics That Must Not Be Read. (Term borrowed from the only other person I know for sure has written one of these. She will not be named here - unless she just wants to be - out of mercy for her.) Another thing I do is write these long, involved pieces of FF that are only for an audience of one, and that one person is me. They're always AUs of some kind, and they always start in canon and move sharply away from it, and they always entertain the hell out of me. But only me.

I've written two. The first is a BtVS story that currently stands at 80 pages of actual story, 30 more of notes and dialog, and 5 of outline, plus 10 pages of deleted scenes. It assumes that canon remains the same up to "Once More with Feeling." (Please note that "Once More with Feeling" is the only episode of BtVS season six that I've seen - and I haven't seen any of five or four, either. No, wait - I think I've seen one episode in season four. My point is, the first clue I had to the ETMNBR status of this beast was that I was writing in canon I hadn't seen.) At that point, a single line changes, and this massively alters everything from then on. In terms of timeline, I've written up to where season nine would have been if there had been one, and I know how things will resolve in season ten.

There are only two people in the world who would be interested in this story; one is me, and the other is Best Beloved. We've both read it. I know it's an ETMNBR, so I'm not worried about finishing it. But I re-read it fairly regularly, and I still write on it from time to time, because it entertains me so damned much.

The other one is much more embarrassing because I didn't realize it was an ETMNBR until after I sent it to be beta-read. It's also rather long (and needs to be much, much longer), an AU that assumes canon up to a certain point and then sharply diverges, and entertaining only to me. (My poor, poor betas - some of them actually read the fucker, and provided really helpful, thoughtful, useful comments - in short, they helped me make a story that was interesting only to me even more interesting. To me. At the cost of a lot of their time and effort. I would send them flowers and chocolate except that I'm embarrassed to speak to them.)

Now for consensus. Feel free to judge harshly.

[Poll #851020]

Comments

[calathea.livejournal.com]

I have a huge and terrifying collection of accumulated Epics That Must Not Be Read, and because in real life I'm a lot more oriented towards the written word than TV, they're almost all about books and characters in books. I started writing them when I was *seven*, and I have all my diaries and notebooks from the day I started writing them, so yes, I still have my AU of the Enid Blyton book "The Adventurous Four", written in purple pen.

Although the collection is terrifying (and yes, you do not want to know about the Star Trek: TNG AU with the thing with the war and the girl who sees auras, okay, shutting up now) I actually am more surprised when people *don't* have a hard drive full of self-indulgent writing than when they do. I tend to think anyone who wants to write just *likes* it and finds it entertaining. We all do stuff to entertain ourselves that isn't intended for public consumptions. I don't see why writing, in my case, self-indulgent epics that twist existing universes to better hit my hot buttons is any more or less alarming than the things other people do. :)

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I started writing them when I was *seven*, and I have all my diaries and notebooks from the day I started writing them, so yes, I still have my AU of the Enid Blyton book "The Adventurous Four", written in purple pen.

Oooo. I've always been rather grateful that my early original stories, FF, and (omg noooooooo) poetry are landfill somewhere, but now I'm kind of sorry, just because it must be fascinating to be able to look back at all that and think, "Here is my evolution as a writer." You can even learn valuable lessons. (Like, don't write in purple pen. There are many folks with whole websites of FF who still haven't learned that lesson.)

Also, I think I love you forever for writing Blyton FF. My childhood was incredibly influenced by Blyton - she loomed large in my mental pantheon alongside Nesbit, Eager, Cooper, and Cresswell, to name just a few - and until I found fandom, I didn't know anyone else who had read anything by her. (And she's not one of those children's authors you can convert people to as adults; you have to read her in childhood or not at all, I find.)

I tend to think anyone who wants to write just *likes* it and finds it entertaining. We all do stuff to entertain ourselves that isn't intended for public consumptions. I don't see why writing, in my case, self-indulgent epics that twist existing universes to better hit my hot buttons is any more or less alarming than the things other people do.

*nods*

I completely agree. (And, hey, I'll see your ST:TNG AU and raise you a The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress AU, complete with Mary Mary Mary Sue.)

[paceus.livejournal.com]

It doesn't sound to me like you're insane, it sounds like you really know how to entertain yourself. I haven't ever imagined fandoms, but I imagine a lot of other things, all the time, so I don't think it's very weird.

About the ETMNBRs I checked "I've never written one, and frankly I'm not sure how the hell you managed to. Or why." That only describes what I think because my writing process is slow and painful and I don't actually do it for fun: I don't really see myself ever writing an epic no one is supposed to see. On the other hand, I think it would be great -- a long story designed to hit all my buttons? I could see that it would be fascinating and fun to write it (that is, if I could write more than three paragraphs a day and didn't have to force myself to start) and fun and satisfying to read it.

Damn. Perhaps I should have checked "I've never written one. But I can see how it could happen."

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

One of the things both my ETMNBR have in common is that they were astonishingly easy and fast to write, at least up to a point; the first 30 or 40 pages just flowed. (That's happened to me with stuff that didn't go all ETMNBR on me, too, so it's not like that's a symptom. Which is good, because there is nothing better than that feeling of the story just kind flowing out of your fingers and onto to the screen.)

[http://users.livejournal.com/solo____/]

I've ticked 'Something else' for your second question. I am now eyeing my present project, which is certainly an epic, with great suspicion. Thank you for planting that idea in my head... I think.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Eeeee no no no! Most epics are not ETMNBR. I'm still figuring out just what makes something one, but - really, your epic is unlikely to be of the MNBR variety. Don't start eyeing it with suspicion just yet! (For one thing, my own experience, and the experiences of people in the comments here, suggest that if it is an ETMNBR, you won't need to wonder. At some point, you'll know.)

[exceptinsects.livejournal.com]

I picked "something else", namely

a) no, I don't, but it sounds excellent and I want to hear all about yours. Most of my fandoms might as well be imaginary anyway since I don't watch the source material, so why not?

and

b)no, because I don't even write stories that should be read, but why not post yours? This is the internet, remember? There is nothing so lame or perverted or weird that there wouldn't be like five hundred other people who think it is awesome. Just the law of averages.

[threerings.livejournal.com]

There is nothing so lame or perverted or weird that there wouldn't be like five hundred other people who think it is awesome. Just the law of averages.

I'm certainly counting on that law whenever I post fanfic.

[apatheia-jane.livejournal.com]

I don't write or consciously develop imaginary fandoms. But I think I have a verse in my head, because I dream new chapters every so often. Ryan O'Reily & Col. Tigh guest-starred in the last one, & helped and/or hindered me in defeating the zombies. Seriously, I dreamt it, & then I started dreaming sequels. & then I wake up in awe at how fandom-saturated my brain must be.

Enjoy your twisted brain. Sounds both complex & fascinating.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

But I think I have a verse in my head, because I dream new chapters every so often. Ryan O'Reily & Col. Tigh guest-starred in the last one, & helped and/or hindered me in defeating the zombies. Seriously, I dreamt it, & then I started dreaming sequels.

This used to happen to me from time to time - not fannish stories, but just stories, ones that continued from night to night, each dream telling a new chapter.

There was one that made me crave mushrooms. Intensely. That was a weird week.

Enjoy your twisted brain. Sounds both complex & fascinating.

It's definitely fun. Although I think my brain is most people's definition of "an interesting place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there."

Hmmm. Possibly that's everyone's definition of other people's heads.

Or, hey, I could be totally crazy. Let's not overlook the obvious possibilities, here.

[daegaer.livejournal.com]

First, your current imaginary fandom is my imaginary fandom too. Time-travel and assassins? Did you not notice my imaginary meta and song-fic on that drive? (I am so excited about the whole idea of time-travelling scientists and assassins that it took me three goes to spell "assassins", and then another pass to realise it doesn't actually have a "u" in it).

Also, my ETMNBR . . . was posted. All of them. (Except the half written ones and the finished modern-day one that I showed to some people and then I started the sequel, OMG). I really and honestly never expected anyone else to want to read about gay Victorian soldiers (and assassins) in assorted lost valleys and on other planets, and was humbly surprised that people did. But the stories are still for me. Though the long and excruciating developments pre- and post- story for some of them remain on my computer/"safely" within my brain. . . . there's nothing like a bit of Victorian sexual shenanigans for ghetting one - or at least me - through a staff meeting. Just saying).

[daegaer.livejournal.com]

Also, and I'm not convince I can actually type this out loud, so to speak, there's the imaginary fandom what got eaten in the old computer when my brother kicked it across the room in a fit of righteous fraternal rage (all perfectly reasonable at the time, honest): Iron Ages elves in space. With the stories and the sociological notes and the encyclopedia. Oh, dear God. *runs and hides*

[syredronning.livejournal.com]

I have written "Epics That Must Not Be Read" (as someone called it rightly, imaginary handjobs; one is a very kinky Trek MU-AU diverging from "Mirror Mirror", and the other is a nasty trek AU where Vulcans take human hostages)

...but I posted them! And they found fans! So I think that people should give their ETMNBR fic a chance to see the daylight - there are twisted minds out there that might share their kinks ;))

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Okay, I know nothing about Trek, but those seem like concepts that, yeah, I can see they'd find an audience. Frankly, I see nothing at all wrong with either of them, and if I was in Trek, I'd totally read them.

I think the deal with ETMNBR for me is that they're, like, the Mary Sue of fiction - no Mary Sue character, just - a story in which everything goes precisely as you'd like it to, or in the way in which you think would be coolest! Ever! And then you make it happen, even if that means marrying Xander to a demon (and having him be happy in that marriage, let me note) and turning (re-souled) Spike into a new Watcher (kind of against his will) after the entire Sunnydale team takes down the old Watcher's Council. See? These are outcomes that I want to see, hell yes - I want to see these characters fulfill what I think is their coolest potential. But other people are not going to want to go there. It's not crackfic, which is laudable and good, or even crazy premise fic - it's, like, wish fulfillment fic, or if-I-were-king fic, or something like that.

*makes notes for purposes of poll meta*

[cardalia.livejournal.com]

Reading people's confessions like this is immensely entertaining. I too, like so many have several crossover epics in my head that I "write" in bed, on the bus, while queuing and so on - basically in all the boring moments of my life. And a few (like, around 3 or so) popslash-like fandom thingies (aren't I astoundingly specific *g*) where I don't so much imagine the fannish behaviour but the reaction of the outside world. There's newspaper articles, tv shows and rumours. So basically lots and lots of imaginary rps.

But I wanted to add my voice to the choir that went weak in the knees at the thought of time traveling teams of questionable ethics. This was especially intriguing: the timestream, which they're supposed to protect, is slowly dissolving. *flails* OMG that's like porn. (Assuming one likes porn, of course.) You do realise, that I'm going to be writing imaginary fanfic in your imaginary fandom? And, you know, I'm not going to beg you to write/post it, because that would be annoying. (Although, please please please. Just to get it out of my system.) But in case you're worried that characters of questionable ethics wouldn't be interesting: 1) The Administration Series (http://www.mannazone.org/zone/admin/index.html) and b) you are kidding about that, aren't you?. *nods*

But well, ignore my shameless begging and go about your way. Thanks for an interesting post!

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Reading people's confessions like this is immensely entertaining. I too, like so many have several crossover epics in my head that I "write" in bed, on the bus, while queuing and so on - basically in all the boring moments of my life. ... There's newspaper articles, tv shows and rumours. So basically lots and lots of imaginary rps.

I cannot even begin to express how happy I am that other people do this, or how fascinated I am by how we all tailor our internal stories to cover what's interesting to us - meta, articles, album art, whatever.

I am overflowing with fannish love right now.

*cuddles all of fandom to her*

But I wanted to add my voice to the choir that went weak in the knees at the thought of time traveling teams of questionable ethics. This was especially intriguing: the timestream, which they're supposed to protect, is slowly dissolving. *flails* OMG that's like porn.

I...I truly thought I was the only one on the planet who viewed the phrase "the timestream, which they're supposed to protect, is slowly dissolving" as being very close kin to fetish porn.

I am so happy to know I'm not alone.

*clings to you embarrassingly*

Hmmm. Thanks to this post, I've already added one mutant interest to my userinfo (telepathophobia, and I am not ashamed), and now I'm seriously considering adding "time travel as fetish porn," too. Or maybe "time travel fetishes."

But, in conclusion: DO NOT ENCOURAGE ME. The part of my brain that spawns these imaginary fandoms really, really does not need to be told that it is normal and even interesting, because frankly it's already way too uppity and determined. If you encourage it, it may sneak out some night, take control, and fill the world with time traveling assassins.

[cupidsbow.livejournal.com]

Okay, as I have pretentions as an Original Writer, I'm not entirely sure my imaginary fandoms count. I mean, they are imaginary, and they probably always will be. And they are big and have seasons and so on (omg, you do time travel too?), and I have actually written some scripts and associated stuff (although not sent any out yet, because... lots of reasons), and sometimes I fritter time away wondering how people would react and so on. But. There is that tiny, tiny chance that one day? Not so much on the imaginary front. I know the odds are vanishingly small, but if I don't believe it in my secret heart it will never come true. And so I'm not sure my imaginary fandoms count.

As for ETMNBN. Do you know that I have 5,000 words of a story called "Kiss of the Cock Zombies" on my hard drive? And I blame you.

Leaving that aside for a moment (and please, god, how I would love to finish that fucker so I never have to look at a cock zombie again), I have many other ETMNBN, but I don't actually write them, as I spend all my writing time, you know, writing actual stuff that I might post or sell. But they exist. In my head. I tell them to myself at night when I can't sleep and on long journeys.

As for whether you are insane to do this? Eh. Who the hell am I to judge. I think I'm going to make a living at writing one day.

*dons crazy hat with pride*

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Okay, as I have pretentions as an Original Writer, I'm not entirely sure my imaginary fandoms count.

Nope. I have decreed, for purposes of this poll, that if you plan to write them down and maybe even sell them someday, they are not imaginary fandoms. They are fandoms in waiting. Totally different, and much more societally acceptable - you can even tell non-fans about them, if you want.

Do you know that I have 5,000 words of a story called "Kiss of the Cock Zombies" on my hard drive? And I blame you.

That is fabulous, and I am honored to take whatever credit you care to give me. (Blame? Blame? That's like blaming someone for the existence of puppies! There's no bad in a story called "Kiss of the Cock Zombies"!) I am delighted, deeply and truly thrilled, that such a thing exists.

and please, god, how I would love to finish that fucker so I never have to look at a cock zombie again

Only in fandom could someone write that phrase and have it have anything approaching meaning. God, I love fandom.

(I also think "never having to look at a cock zombie again" is a perfect phrase for nearly any occasion. Like, resumes: "Objective: To never have to look at a cock zombie again." Or interviews: "Where do you see yourself in the next five years?" "Never having to look at a cock zombie again." Or office gossip: "What's wrong with Frank?" "Search me. I'm never having to look at a cock zombie again."

I intend to use this in conversation whenever possible. If people dare to question me, I will say mournfully, "Zombie cocks are a tragic blight on some underserved communities." And then I will look very sad.)

*dons crazy hat with pride*

*attempts to negotiate for partial custody of crazy hat*

[cupidsbow.livejournal.com]

Excerpt from the ETMNBN, "Kiss of the Cock Zombies" (totally unbetaed and oh, god, we hates it, but then I always do with stories that get stuck like this)...

Beyond Tense
Judging by the available evidence (which was, is, and will probably always be scant given the nature of the event in question) John's best estimate was that it had started (and also will and did start) sometime about ten years in the future.

But from a strictly chronological viewpoint (if such a thing could be said to exist in a universe in which time travel was possible), it had begun the day John had been out for a run and had turned a corner and found himself leaning casually (or possibly causally) against the east pier railing.

John stared at Future John, the sweat on his neck turning icy in the sea-breeze, and then he came to his senses and drew his gun.

"Chuck Yeager," says Future John, not moving from his spot against the railing. His hair is sprinkled with grey, and sticking up in a way that looks really, really stupid.

"What?" said John, tearing his gaze away from the hair.

Future John sighs. "The question you're going to test me with, to see if I'm really you-from-the-future, is 'Who's the best pilot who ever lived?' And the answer is--"

"Okay," John said, because that was the question he'd planned to ask himself if a doppelganger ever appeared and claimed to be him-from-the-future. He flicked the gun's safety back on, but didn't reholster it. "But that doesn't prove--"

"Oh please!" says Future John, in a tone that sounds exactly like he's channeling Rodney. He holds out his hand, showing John that he's wearing a wedding ring.

"Bzzzzt," said John. "That just proves you're lying, because there's no way I'll ever get married."

Smirking, Future John says, "They repeal DADT seven years from now. And the sex is even better than you think it will be. Rodney's got this--"

"Oh my God! Don't tell me that!" John said, desperately. It was already difficult enough not thinking about Rodney, without a future version of himself turning up, flaunting a ring and gloating at him about hot, gay, and most of all, out sex. "Shouldn't you be afraid of contaminating the time line or something?"

The smirk wipes off Future John's face. "Actually, it's relevant to the current crisis." He hesitates before explaining further.

Even though John had never before seen his own face wearing that expression, he instinctively knew it meant Future John was about to say something he didn't want to hear.

"The thing is," says Future John, "Rodney's penis has got to be stopped, before it contaminates the entire space-time continuum."

[cimness.livejournal.com]

hahahhahahaha. i think you could just post it like that. it's almost better when you don't know how or why.

[cimness.livejournal.com]

i write lots of what i call imaginary stories, some of them only in my own head and some which i discuss extensively with people. many of them are crack, but they're not all that different in principle from the things i actually do write; what makes them imaginary is usually that i know i wouldn't have the stamina to write something that long and epic or something like that, as opposed to shameful mary sues and crossovers (even in my heart of hearts, i don't really like those things very much). but they probably don't exactly qualify as epics that must not be read anyway, because (1) i never even start writing them, i just think about them a lot - i save my writing energy for things i plan to finish and do something with and (2) in many cases i wouldn't be too ashamed of them. i mean, sure, there's the ones with sex slaves, and the ones with horrible cheesy amounts of oozy angst and porn (in other words, exactly like what i WASN'T too ashamed to write when i was still a teenie), but for the most part they have real plots and so on.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

*sighs sadly*

I've been burned by imaginary stories many times. They're the ones that other people come up (or sometimes I do, but shhhhhhhh, because I'm pretending it's all everyone else's fault), and then we discuss them and I fall in love with them and they never get written WAH.

*adds you to the list of Confessed Ficteases*

[loriel-eris.livejournal.com]

Hey there. I added you to my flist, hmm, maybe about a week ago. Just to let you know.

So. Um. Do you have any imaginary fandoms?

Nope, but I think what you've got is so very cool! *g*

Do you have any Epics That Must Not Be Read languishing on your hard drive?

Nope, but I'm hoping my unwritten epic will be written and read. There is, however, the beginnings of a short story (Star Trek Voyager/Anne Mccaffrey Freedom 'Verse crossover) that will/should have the status of SSTMNBR (short story...).

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

*waves*

Hi!

Nope, but I think what you've got is so very cool! *g*

Why I love fandom in 25 words or less: because everything that normal people would think is pathetic beyond imagining fans think is wonderful.

Nope, but I'm hoping my unwritten epic will be written and read.

Yay! Writing it is definitely the correct course of oction.

In fact, I have decided, after much careful thought (spurred, of course, by the responses to this poll), that everyone's ETMNBR should be posted. (But I also think that my own shouldn't, so I'm trying to come up with a logical way to exclude me. It's tough going, but reading all these ETMNBR would be so worth it.)

[delurker.livejournal.com]

Do you have any imaginary fandoms?
Okay, I was going to say "no". Because I don't do meta or whatever. But.
I've always had these huge heroic stories which I tell to myself. Particularly a space opera one, with spaceships and magic and crack (oh, the crack! wings and bodyswap and genderfuck and rentboys and god knows what else) which I adore to pieces and have told to myself for, um, I can't even remember when I started but I think six years or more. It's extremely fluid, but characters recur a lot. For a while it was het, sort of, and the main character changed gender a lot, but then I discovered slash and now it has a slash OTP. It's not a Mary Sue, because the main character isn't me (I really can't do Mary Sues), but the main character is my POV character and is a guy. Why this is so, I don't know.

I'll do headhopping, and retell scenes with different perspectives. And I'll AU scenes. I also tend to cannibalise bits of media and other things that I hear and that I like and use them to fuel my story; when I walk out of a movie you can bet I'm daydreaming my story in utter bliss.


I've never written an ETMNBR (or an epic at all), but I do plan them. I plan a lot of fic that I never write, except in my head.
Really, the energy that goes into an ETMNBR goes into my daydream, and I love the fluidity of it too much to write anything down.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I've always had these huge heroic stories which I tell to myself. Particularly a space opera one, with spaceships and magic and crack (oh, the crack! wings and bodyswap and genderfuck and rentboys and god knows what else) which I adore to pieces and have told to myself for, um, I can't even remember when I started but I think six years or more. It's extremely fluid, but characters recur a lot. For a while it was het, sort of, and the main character changed gender a lot, but then I discovered slash and now it has a slash OTP. It's not a Mary Sue, because the main character isn't me (I really can't do Mary Sues), but the main character is my POV character and is a guy. Why this is so, I don't know.

*nods nods*

Actually, my Mary Sues are mostly guys, too. There was this sea change that I remember - up until I was 14, the Mary Sues were girls and definite wish-fulfillment for me. (Like me! But smarter! Tougher! Gorgeous! Able to fly! Yes, fly. And be invisible. Oh, don't look at me like that; I was young, and the statute of shame limitation is definitely up.) And then suddenly they became guys, and definitely neither self-inserts (OMG I do not want to be in own my fantasy worlds; I'm here in the real one, and one world is enough, thanks.) or wish fulfillment. But still, you know, smarter than me, stronger than me, etc.

Just, these guys are, for example, sometimes maybe infected by someone else's bionanites in a way that causes the two of them to have weird intermittent control over each other's bodies in times of stress; like, when one of them is freaking out and therefore unable to remain calm and control the bionanites, which require a sort of biofeedback type regulation, the other one can control his. And one of them is a very exciteable type whose primary job qualification (he's, um, a space pilot, and OMG why am I admitting this?) is like a glorified form of ADD. Wacky hijinks and improbable rescues ensue!

My point: yeah, I have a space opera, too. Several, actually; the most recent was the imaginary fandom before the current one. I...I wrote parts of it down. I'm not proud of that.

[helens78]

Unfinished epics? Yes. Epics in progress I do intend to post? Yes. Epics that desperately need revision before I put them on my website which I might never revise and which therefore might never be posted? Yes. But nothing I start writing thinking I will never, ever post it.

I used to want to write slash for everything I saw. Movies, TV shows, anything. If I got it out from Netflix, I looked for slash and felt obligated to write the stuff. Nowadays I'm much, much better about it (I've been watching Lord of War and no matter how pretty Jared Leto is, I will not be slashing him with Nic Cage), but sometimes a weird idea will come into my head, like "What if Duncan MacLeod was sent to check out Lex Luthor and find out whether he's an Immortal and just doesn't know it? And what if Lex was?" I have Issues about HL crossovers, so that falls into the category of "fic so self-indulgent surely no one would want to read it", and yet two people went "O RLY?" when I mentioned I had a bunny. So nah. I think I'd post even ETMNBR if I finished them. SOMEONE would be curious!

These days I'm more determined not to post WIPs. I need to sit down and write out endings for the ones I do have up, and I need to start finishing series before I start posting. I'm sick of getting sidetracked. >_<

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Okay, first: I love your icon more than words can convey. <3!

But nothing I start writing thinking I will never, ever post it.

Well, I started my ETMNBR thinking they'd be postable and full expecting to post them both. Just, it became apparent somewhere around page 60 (#1) or page 50 (#2, post beta OMG I could die of the shame) that these were, in fact, ETMNBR.

I have Issues about HL crossovers, so that falls into the category of "fic so self-indulgent surely no one would want to read it", and yet two people went "O RLY?" when I mentioned I had a bunny.

Add me to the list, please. I've been attempting to edge my way into HL for quite some time, and crossovers are gold to me right now. (Well-done ones. The universe is a tough one to blend with certain other ones.) And, hey, Lex Luthor as an immortal is such an awesome idea, because probably he already did die, and he just didn't notice it what with all the crap that goes on in Smallville.

It'd explain a lot about him, actually.

Seriously. I am sold on your bunny.

These days I'm more determined not to post WIPs.

I'm actually considering starting, just to deal with the ETMNBR issue. I never post works in progress (and, in fact, try to avoid reading them, because I am not good at waiting), but - I think a chapter apiece of my ETMNBR would get them off my soul and give everyone a really clear understanding of why they are, in fact, ETMNBR. Definition by example!

[geneticallydead.livejournal.com]

You said:
So. Um. Do you have any imaginary fandoms?

I replied:
Well, maybe. Sort of. I mean, I've got something similar.

Okay. So this is embarrassing. But hello, we're in fandom here. It's like taking all the most embarrassing aspects of your personality and throwing a frewking parade for them.

So. I wrote this play. About Joan of Arc. More specifically, about her relationship with the Bishop Pierre Cauchon... a fictional account of their interaction in the period immediately after her capture up until her execution, and the play was all about faith and patriotism and desire, and the character of Joan was really complicated and angsty and noble but also egotistical, and the character of Cauchon was very deeply flawed and repressed and had this past history of abuse and there's all this sexual tension between them and blahblahblah you get the point.

So, this turns into an actual play that got performed, and directed by me. And it was this horrific thing whereby I fell utterly in love with the character of Cauchon. And then I started to fall for the actor portaying him (who just so happened to understand the character scarily well). So the two got all mixed together in my head. I mean, I never Mary Sue'd myself as Joan or anything, but I started to mentally write fanfiction whereby Cauchon, showing characteristics of the actor, redeems himself at the last moment and then they run away together or something. (You know, just casually AU'ing the part where she gets burned at the stake.)

And then I started to mentally write meta about the fact that I had written a play that was essentially fanfiction for historical events, which by some freak of nature made it into the real world, and I had then created an elaborate fanfiction-y alternate universe for it in my head. And in the process, fallen for both character and actor. And I'm still not entirely sure how well I seperate the two. Which is probably bad, because the actor is now my boyfriend, but there are some things he never needs to know.

But, you know, as long as I'm not alone in Teh Crazy, I think I'm doing all right...

[raveninthewind.livejournal.com]

*admires your world construct* (sincerely)

[liddle-oldman.livejournal.com]

It seems to *me* that your "imaginary fandoms" are what many people call writing.

By the way, now I'm intrigued by your premise. (Myself, if given the chance, I'd whack out Bismark, early. Delay or avoid assembling Germany, and all sorts of twentieth century nastiness goes away).

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

By the way, now I'm intrigued by your premise. (Myself, if given the chance, I'd whack out Bismark, early. Delay or avoid assembling Germany, and all sorts of twentieth century nastiness goes away).

OMG. OMG. Don't even. Don't even start, because time travel speculation of this kind, alternative histories and whatnot - this is a total obsession of mine, and you are basically throwing gasoline on an open fire, here.

(But, in fact, my time traveling team can't, or aren't supposed to, kill anyone contemporaneous, and they're supposed to avoid erasing their memories if at all possible. (Anachronistic knowledge will get contemps wiped, though; it's the only good reason, and they're supposed to have proof, which is very hard to get, and they have to go through an "interview" in which a group of people who have never been in the field decide if the wipe was justified. So, really, wiping a contemp is unfortunate and messy and just not a good idea.) They're only assigned to wipe or kill other (opposition) time travelers (well, except in certain circumstances). Except last book/season they had to kill a contemp, and they couldn't report it because of [book/season one plot complications] and now they think maybe they were responsible for the temporal dissolution.

And, oh god, I totally did not mean to share all that. That's...that's TMI beyond all bounds of TMI. Sorry.)

(But, hey, if you're still here, can I go off-topic for a second? Because I've been meaning to ask you if you have tips or suggestions for finding and attending a Unitarian church, ideally one that is fairly, um, non-threatening and open-minded, and it just never seemed like a good time. But you're here! In my comments! And I just revealed a great secret shame! So, really, at this point I think religious impositions are actually going to improve the overall tone of this comment.)

[indywind]

Re: question 1: Yes, and one of them even had-- about a decade before I even HEARD of DueSouth, mind you--a blond Chicago detective and a Canadian (of Innuit descent; Julie of the Wolves affected my youthful self deeply), who were partners, and queer, and thus inevitably hot for each other.

I admit this; apparently I have no shame.

Re: 2: I have a hard time writing fiction that ISN'T an Epic That Must Not Be Read, which is why you do not see me post fanfic.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Yes, and one of them even had-- about a decade before I even HEARD of DueSouth, mind you--a blond Chicago detective and a Canadian (of Innuit descent; Julie of the Wolves affected my youthful self deeply), who were partners, and queer, and thus inevitably hot for each other.

Good lord. You independently evolved due South. Wow.

Re: 2: I have a hard time writing fiction that ISN'T an Epic That Must Not Be Read, which is why you do not see me post fanfic.

But, hmm. I am no longer so sure that ETMNBR should, in fact, not be read. (These comments have been very healing, yes, but - so many people have posted little previews of their ETMNBR, and in almost all cases my reaction is, "OH MY GOD WRITE THAT RIGHT NOW," so I'm experiencing some doubt about the existence of ETMNBR.)

My point: if you've got any finished stuff lying about, perhaps you should find a beta and get an unbiased opinion about the MNBR portion of the equation.

(And my other point is: wow, fandom can persuade me of anything. I'm apparently easy at a molecular level.

...And now I need to go write down several paragraphs of SGA built around that sentence, purely for my own amusement. Excuse me.)

[cosmic.livejournal.com]

a) It's sad how much I love my imaginary fandoms. I have playlists and fanvids and notebooks upon notebooks of plots and episodes and mytharcs and character notes and shipping meta and possible fan kerfuffle situations and actual research, for both mythological/religious texts and geographic. And MOST of it is still all in my head, and I have some episodes mapped out down to the way they should be shot and what kind of notes the actors might need for them. And those are up to the season three finale, even if there are big blocks of blank space where some of the episodes are. And I'm almost ready to sue Supernatural or whatever show for copyright theft every time they do something that I - or, actually, we, as it's not just my imaginary fandom - plotted out years ago. And I'm half-convinced that some of these shows WILL be actual shows one day. Or at least the book will really be written.

As for ETMNBNs, I don't have so much epics (although I do have some of those: three or four Mary Sue fics in three different fandoms) as I have hundreds of unfinished fics and scenelets and bits of dialog that I go through sometimes, thinking that one day I might finish this or that, no matter how off canon they are by now (or, actually, in most cases, how dead the show is by now). Not all of them are self-indulgent crap, so I really should come up with proper endings for some of them and post them somewhere. It's just really sad to post something three pages long with a note saying, "well, this took me four years to write, so sorry for how completely AU this is and how the writing is completely different in style in some places, because I have Grown as a Person and as a Writer (she says, pretentiously) since I wrote the bulk of it.

So basically: you're not alone. At all.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

It's sad how much I love my imaginary fandoms. I have playlists and fanvids and notebooks upon notebooks of plots and episodes and mytharcs and character notes and shipping meta and possible fan kerfuffle situations and actual research, for both mythological/religious texts and geographic.

I love you. Because, yes. I do this. Particularly the obsessive research for an entirely imaginary fandom. I mean, it's imaginary! In my head! But apparently I still need it to be factually accurate, and if that means spending several dozen hours researching 1618 or early Victorian fashion or whatever, then so be it.

I have hundreds of unfinished fics and scenelets and bits of dialog that I go through sometimes, thinking that one day I might finish this or that

*nods nods*

Yes. Oh, yes. I have these. Most of mine are obviously crap, but every once in a while I'll open a file and read it and it will stop suddenly and I'll shriek (at my former self, obviously), "Why didn't you finish this? Oh my god, what happens next?"

A lot of times I have no memory of writing these things. At all.

But, hey, I'm improving, because these days I leave notes in my snippets and unfinished stories about where I was going. They're for my future self, so she doesn't die of frustration. This was Best Beloved's idea, and it's working out very well.

Oh, and, hey - there's nothing even remotely wrong with posting stories for a long-dead show or stories that canon has deviated from. And a beta could easily smoothe out the writing style variations. Just, you know, a thought. (In conclusion: yes! Finish and post! And tell me if you do!)

[redfiona99.livejournal.com]

I've not got imaginary fandoms in the sense that, although I have entirely invented and chronologically planned out stories and actors who I have cast in the roles and actors in case those actors drop out, I haven't imagined a whole fandom based round it.

None of the ETMNBR ever started out as such, it's just that while I've been writing these gargantuan monoliths, canon kept happening and now what I've written bares no resemblence to what's gone on and revealed motivations and it's generally gone pear-shaped but I still like the fics, and I'm still adding to the damn things.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

None of the ETMNBR ever started out as such, it's just that while I've been writing these gargantuan monoliths, canon kept happening and now what I've written bares no resemblence to what's gone on and revealed motivations and it's generally gone pear-shaped but I still like the fics, and I'm still adding to the damn things.

Ooo. Interesting. I do sometimes see stories like these posted, and I generally enjoy them; I have no problem suspending later canon knowledge along with my disbelief. (Of course, that assumes that I have canon knowledge, which is generally not the case. So I may be something of a special case, here.) In some cases, like with the DCU, I'm actually thrilled to see old-continuity stories posted, because I would like to pretend that current canon is not happening.

So my point is: there's no reason not to post stories that have been overtaken by canon events. I mean, people still read HP stories that were written before book five came out, and most of those are massively overtaken by canon events. So, really, not a problem.

[lcsbanana.livejournal.com]

yessss. I have this tv show i made up, and actually got halfway through the pilot script before my computer ate it--tried to rewrite it as a novel but only made it ten pages, but i still ponder their adventures. and it's totally, like, thinking about seasonal arcs and structuring things around sweeps and how to introduce new characters and very much from a FANDOM point of view.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I can't believe your computer ate it. I mean - perhaps, in some glorious, halcyon future, I could have turned your characters into baaaaaaaby animals.

*weeps for lost opportunities*

(Although I haven't entirely lost the opportunity for lcsbanana-inspired animal transformations. It's thanks to you that I've got ten pages of Tim Drake as a wombat ("Batman and Wombat") on my hard drive, after all. I suppose I will have to be content with that. Unless you get cracking on the novel.)

very much from a FANDOM point of view.

Yes, that's it precisely. Fandom infuses everything about my imaginary fandoms and influences how I think about their stories; before I found fandom, the stories I told myself were very different.

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

For question one: uh, honey? That's every writer on the planet.

*G* Not that I know this. It just sounds like the kind of mental shenanigans I've heard writers talk about. And this is EXACTLY what fabularasa is now doing with her original fiction; she's got fanfic for her fiction (a fact that cracks me up), and icons (yeah, she cast her characters), and probably meta.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

For question one: uh, honey? That's every writer on the planet.

Well, except they write theirs down and try to sell them. I just play with mine when no one is looking. (And, apparently, talk about them on the internet, but that is a very new development.)

And this is EXACTLY what fabularasa is now doing with her original fiction; she's got fanfic for her fiction (a fact that cracks me up), and icons (yeah, she cast her characters), and probably meta.

I know, and I love her for it. (Although, you know, until you said this, I never in any way connected her original writing, which is, of course, totally legitimate, respectable, and indeed something to be proud of, with my shameful secret imaginary fandoms. And yet they're really not all that different. I mean, the stories are, but the activities of creating them really aren't so much. Huh.)

[hradzka.livejournal.com]

I do something sort of similar to #1, sometimes. Mainly noodling stuff around to figure how I'd do, say, a revamp of the Lone Ranger for TV, and what the show would be like. My fanac musings are more along the lines of what LJ fandoms for various properties that never had them would be like (I blame liviapenn for starting me thinking about it. See here (http://hradzka.livejournal.com/121802.html), for example.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Mainly noodling stuff around to figure how I'd do, say, a revamp of the Lone Ranger for TV, and what the show would be like.

Huh. How would you? Because, okay, I've never seen the show, but from what I know about it, it's kind of a creature of its time.

Although if you did, well, it seems really obvious to me that Lone Ranger/modern equivalent of Tonto (Tanto?) would be the pairing of choice for that fandom.

My fanac musings are more along the lines of what LJ fandoms for various properties that never had them would be like

The link is totally unnecessary; I loved and adored that post, and read it many times with appropriate cackling and head-nodding. (I can't remember if I actually mentioned that to you at the time, though. Um. Well, if I didn't, now I have.)

So, have you taken the final leap and figured out what the LJ fandom for the revamped Lone Ranger show would look like? Because I've been considering that ever since I read your comment, and it's only fair that you should, too.

[lovelokest.livejournal.com]

Sadly I wrote and posted a ETMNBR years ago before I knew better - and it is still online *hangs head in shame*.

I write lots of them in my head, they just never get to paper *g*.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

Sadly I wrote and posted a ETMNBR years ago before I knew better - and it is still online *hangs head in shame*.

No, no. The Statute of Shame Limitations is almost certainly out on your ETMNBR by now, so you can hold your head up high. (And doubly so, because I bet there were people who loved it.)

[gelliaclodiana]

About the imaginary fandoms -- I don't do this, but this summer my husband and I startd to invent a tv show (for fun), and I imediately started to work out the fandom stuff -- who would be shipped with whom, what the first big flamewar would be about... He's not actually fannish, but we did end up playing with that stuff as well.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

I covet your icon, for the record. Tentacle pride!

this summer my husband and I startd to invent a tv show (for fun), and I imediately started to work out the fandom stuff -- who would be shipped with whom, what the first big flamewar would be about

Oh. Wow. You just reminded me of something I'd - not forgotten, but just not thought about for a while. For a long time, my Best Beloved and I used to play a game called Three Things - on, like, long car trips, or while waiting for movies to start, stuff like that. One of us would come up with three disparate elements, and then the other would have to turn them into a movie, religion (and associated culture), or story. (Depending on which variety of the game we were playing. The types of Three Things we could give each other were different for each variety, too - like, for the movie version, we could use actors, directors, styles, genres, character types, and plot elements.) Sometimes we got really detailed and involved and spent days talking about just one of them, building them into whole worlds.

This was before I found fandom, but in retrospect, I see a lot of fannishness in that. (Apart from anything else, we invented our own form of prompted commentfic.)

(Um. This isn't entirely connected to your comment; just, my memory was triggered by the concept of spousal fandom creation. And I bet if we did it now, we would totally throw in the fannish elements, including of course shipping and flamewars.)

But does it count if you get other people to buy it too?

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

Imaginary Fandoms. I have, um, imaginary fandoms. I don't mean original fiction that I tell myself - I mean original fandoms, where I come up with, for example, a long and detailed original story, and then entertain myself with considering - and sometimes, um, even writing - various types of fan fiction

One word, sweetie:

ARI.

Re: But does it count if you get other people to buy it too?

[raucousraven.livejournal.com]

*BUYS IN BULK*